What fixings for a heavy cupboard on a breezeblock wall?

Crimea · 11 Oct 2013

I hope you can see the pictures.

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Crimea
11 Oct 2013
1

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Crimea
11 Oct 2013
1

I need to fix this to a garage wall, but it's very heavy and am not sure if the brackets I have are sufficient and what wall fixings I need.

The blocks are at least 35 years old, so I presume they're proper breezeblocks.

The cupboard is about 140 cm x 50 cm x 50 cm and mostly solid wood or something pretty heavy.

The brackets are very old but in good condition (bit of rust on some of them) and are true as I've measured them with a set square.

The two largest ones are:

12”/30cm x 10”/25.5cm - 2 of them

10”/25.5cm x 8”/20cm - 2 of them

The drill bits I have are the masonry ones supplied in the standard Bosch DIY set like this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...f_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=431079167&pf_rd_i=79903031

And I only have the bog-standard Bosch PSB 18 Li Cordless 18 Volt Hammer Drill, not an impact drill.

Do you think the brackets would be strong enough or would you ditch them for better brackets or something else? I'd like to make do with what I have, if I can, but I'd also like to get it right.

Perhaps most importantly, what Rawlplugs and screws I should use?

Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers.

big-all · 11 Oct 2013

is the back flush or is there a gap!!
if its flush i would cut a baton[20x44mm] to the internal length fix it to the inside top screwed through the sides into the ends and several screws through the top
another baton fixed to the wall to supporting the bottom edge

sit it on the bottom baton and screw through the top baton into plugs in the wall

Crimea · 11 Oct 2013

The back is flush, but its very thin board - 4 - 5mm I think:

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Crimea
11 Oct 2013
1

and this is the base:

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Crimea
11 Oct 2013
1

It has to be raised a few feet from the floor. You don't think brackets would be best? I'm worried it could come down if I just secured it by one top internal baton, with the whole cupboard sitting on top of another baton on the wall.

What fixings would I need?

big-all · 11 Oct 2013

is it a wall or floor standing unit??
i had assumed a wall unit

joints that are strong under compression can be very weak under tension
what sort off construction is the cabinet??
as in material the sides are made from and how its held together

Crimea · 11 Oct 2013

It was originally on the floor and probably made for the floor, but I want to put it on the wall and free up some garage space.

All the sides look to be solid wood or at least some dense plywood, but the back is pretty thin.

I think the back board has just been nailed onto the back edges of the four sides.

I can't tell how the top, bottom and sides have been attached to each other, as they'll all painted, but I think it's pretty well put together. I don't fancy going to the garage right now in this weather to check

I was only worried about holding it all up via the back board, in case it wasn't strong enough.

big-all · 11 Oct 2013

do not worry about the back it only keeps the thing square

i assume its several screws each side
try pulling the front up at each side whilst standing on the base
if it feel fine then fix as i suggested
the base will be fine as it hangs off the side be it 2 or 100" off the ground

my only concern now is the top will be playing a bigger part in the load bearing where as on the floor it is supported by the sides

StephenW · 12 Oct 2013

Just another idea, how about as well as the horizontal battens inside top and underneath the base and fixed to the wall, you could also have an external framework. Two triangles, one each side with a vertical batten fixed to the wall, a horizontal at the bottom coming out from the wall and then a diagonal from top back to bottom front. You could then fix a batten between the fronts of the triangles for the cupboard to sit on. The diagonals could be wood, metal or even steel cable.

Crimea · 13 Oct 2013

I've tapped all the sides all over and they seem solid, but can't see how it's been assembled. I've marked in the picture below where I think the joins must be:

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Crimea
13 Oct 2013
1

The sides are 17mm/²/₃in thick. I think thin ply has been added to all the surfaces to conceal the joins and screws/nails and finishing strips added to the front ends and shelf edge, but however it's been done, it seems solid.

What breezeblock fixings should I use?

ban-all-sheds · 14 Oct 2013

big-all said:
my only concern now is the top will be playing a bigger part in the load bearing where as on the floor it is supported by the sides

I think that's a very real concern - the stresses in the cupboard will be very different when it's sitting on a batten than when it's sat on the floor.

I like StephenW's suggestion. Or fit Spur Steel-Lok uprights to the wall, and put it on a sheet of ply sitting on 470mm brackets.

I also like the idea of going back to first principles, deciding what is to be stored in the cupboard, and whether just ditching it and putting up simple shelving would be more appropriate - can't help thinking that it's a lot of faffing around, and that if it's moved too high up those bottom hinged doors will stop anyone getting close enough to it to be able to reach the back of the shelves.

Crimea · 14 Oct 2013

How about going back to the original idea of brackets? Would that solve the problem of the top supporting too much weight?

I thought the two large 12" x 10" brackets would be best + one or two of the 10" x 8" ones. Maybe I could glue front-to-back battens to the underside and support the cupboard on those, rather than screw into the underside.

For added peace of mind I could also fix the cupboard to the wall. There are two holes in the back board, so maybe that's how it was fixed in the past.

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Crimea
14 Oct 2013
1

I know the way the doors are hinged makes it an awkward cupboard, but putting it on the wall isn't my decision. It will only store bits and bobs anyway - nothing heavy.

Thanks.

big-all · 14 Oct 2013

put a baton at the top inside then another baton from the shelve up to the baton each side inside 2 screws through the back into the wall and 2 or 3 through the side into the baton plus 1 into the top baton then i would be 100% happy it wont go anywhere as the side will now be fully supported in its own right into the wall
dont forget the baton under the bottom back edge underneath as well
it will now be as strong as it would be on the floor

Crimea · 14 Oct 2013

Thanks.

What fixings? I don't want to go wrong with this.

big-all · 14 Oct 2013

i normally use brown plugs a 6mm drill[1mm small]
if you are using 20x44mm[2x1"] for your batons then 18mm+3mm+38mm in the plug so 60 or 70mm x5mm screws or 2 1/2"- 2 3/4" number 10s screws
drill the hole 1 3/4" or 45mm into the blocks

if any plug is loose knock in 1/4 or half off a brown plug into the middle or around the edge off the other plug

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What fixings for a heavy cupboard on a breezeblock wall?

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