Can anyone help re loft conversion question please.

Trussell11 · 5 Feb 2014

I am looking to do a loft conversion and have a detached house.
It will be a hip to gable on both the sides, I'm told this can be done under permitted development assuming it doesn't go over 50 cubic meters, and neither of the hip to gables front a highway.
This is what I'm not sure about though...
I have a 2 story side extension already put on the original house and I'm told that I have to take into account the new roof space created by the extension and this will eat into some of the 50 cubic meters before I start calculating the 2 hip to gable extensions?
Th other question that I'm not sure on is am I allowed under permitted development to build a hip to gable on the side that is the original house and also the side that is now the extension side, as I heard that it might only be allowed on the original side but not on the extension side?
Thanks in advance for any comments to help me in this.

mikeey84 · 5 Feb 2014

You are allowed 50m3 of additonal roof space in total, so any previous roof space additions (your extension) will need to be taken into account for you hip-gable conversion.

Not sure about the other point, although I fail to see why planning would have an issue with that. I think a photo would help, so we can see the current layout of the roof.

tony1851 · 5 Feb 2014

As above really, though there is a small point you need to consider.

As you will be aware, the pd rules state that the roof enlargement must not be on any roof forming a part of the principal elevation.

If you have a side extension (presumably with a hipped roof?), then technically your hip-to-gable on that side will be a roof enlargement going in front of 'a roof forming part of the front elevation' (ie the front roof slope of the extension).
It's not stated in the regs whether this refers to the roof of the original dwelling, or the dwelling as extended.
This may not even occur to your local planning dept, but it's a point to bear in mind. You can always apply for a LDC.

Trussell11 · 5 Feb 2014

Hi, thanks for your responses.
I did think I read somewhere that the extension loft space would have to be taken into account when using this max 50 cubic meters space.
The extension is set back from the original house so the hip to gable wouldn't be forward of the original or existing plane.
Guess I just need answered if I can change the hip to gable on the original side of house hip, which I probably can, and hip to gable on the extension side, which I'm not sure about?

tony1851 · 5 Feb 2014

Trussell11 said:
The extension is set back from the original house so the hip to gable wouldn't be forward of the original or existing plane.

Are you sure about that?
If you are doing a complete hip-to-gable on the side of the house where the extension is, then a part of your roof enlargment WILL be forward of the front-facing roof of the side extension. The whole front wall + roof of the side extension would be regarded as a part of the principal (ie front) elevation.

(Not trying to pour cold water on your project, just playing devil's advocate - you need to be wary of planning departments when doing things which appear p.d.)

Trussell11 · 5 Feb 2014

house

Trussell11
5 Feb 2014
1

house

Trussell11
5 Feb 2014
1

Here is my house at the moment, so the right hand side bit next to the garage is the extension. I am looking to do a hip to gable on the left and the right, although the left is the original house and the right is the extension, can i put a hip to gable on an extension as PD ? And i'm told i have to take into account the additional roof space that has been created on the extion side into the 50 cubic meters allowance ?

Thanks

Trussell11 · 5 Feb 2014

house proposed

Trussell11
5 Feb 2014
1

Here is the proposed.....so changing hips to gables on the sides ?

Question 1 - In the 50 cubic metres allowed under PD, do i have to include the additional roof space created by the extension on the right ?

Question 2 - Am i allowed to raise a hip to gable on both sides, or more importantly am i allowed to do it on the extension side on the right as this is the side i'm unsure of as it's not the original house ?

mikeey84 · 5 Feb 2014

Question 1- as has been said twice, yes you do have to include the extension roof space in the 50m3

Q2- I think you will have to talk to the planning team at your LO, as Tony has said, there is a chance that it wont comply to PD due to the extension, (but not because of the reason that you think)

Architexeter · 5 Feb 2014

1. Yes, it is the total additional roofspace to the original dwellinghouse, so that would need to include the extension roof volume.

2. I believe that the hip to gable alteration on the extension would require planning permission.

cjard · 5 Feb 2014

Trussell11 said:
The extension is set back from the original house so the hip to gable wouldn't be forward of the original or existing plane.

No, it'd be forward of the front plane of the roof above the garage though.. That's what he's saying.

Whether the council realise or take this perspective is another matter, but it would suck to complete your conversion then have some busybody come along and say "actually, the front plane of roof above the garage is a front roof plane for the purposes of PD, and youve created more roof nearer to the road than the garage roof is"

Of course, you could solve this by removing the garage roof, turning it sideways or changing it for a flat one. Planning application would probably be a cheaper first alternative

Trussell11 · 5 Feb 2014

Thanks again for the comments.

I thought on the planning portal it says not forward of the existing roof plane of the original house not a garage ?

I wish i could find something relating to if a hip to gable can be built on an extension under PD ? as i know it can on the left side on the original house.

House might look funny having a gable on the left side and leaving the hip on the right.......

tony1851 · 5 Feb 2014

Trussell11 said:
on the planning portal it says......blah blah blah....

The Planning Portal is only of limited value, and in most case just quotes rules from the governments Technical Guidance on permitted development.

That in turn does not address all circumstances (such as yours) and in some cases is just plain wrong, as demonstrated by the recent High Court case regarding the set-back of dormers behind the eaves.

This is one of those instances in which you will get conflicting answers and your safest bet is to apply for a LDC. This will take time but as noted above, if you build as to your own interpretation of the rules, the council may have different ideas.

Trussell11 · 5 Feb 2014

If I apply for LDC and it gets refused are they likely to give me reasons why so I can amend accordingly if needed and re apply?

Trussell11 · 5 Feb 2014

An architect has just said to me "you cannot raise the hip at front even under pd because it fronts a highway" this is on the original house.

But I am not changing the roof line on the front of the house that fronts the highway I am just extending it out sidewards making the hip a gable with the same roof line.

That's right isn't it??

tony1851 · 5 Feb 2014

That architect is clueless. The prohibition on enlarging the roof only applies if you go beyond the plane of the roof; you can still extend the roof sideways.
That still doesn't solve your particuar problem, though.

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Can anyone help re loft conversion question please.

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