Can I run electric fire from back boiler supply?

banjo67xxx · 30 Mar 2014

I'm replacing a gas fire and back boiler with an electric fire and surround. The electric fire has a BS1363 plug which connects at the back of the fireplace.

When the fire surround is in place there is no space for the 13A cable to come from behind to the front to reach the socket next to the fireplace, however there is still the old back boiler electrical supply cable inside the chimney, and the wires look like 13A.

Is there any reason why I cant put a 13A socket on the back boiler wiring?

I realise that it will not be possible to access the switch on the socket, but then it was never possible to access any fuse or switch on the back boiler. As an electric fire and a boiler are both types of heating device, can I avoid the need for hiring a certified electrician to fit the socket? or would not having access to the switch contravene Part P anyway?

Taylortwocities · 30 Mar 2014

Edit.
So, it will depend on where the supply to the socket is connected from. That wiring may come from the central heating circuitry which will not support a 13amp socket!

ericmark · 30 Mar 2014

I have never seen a power supply to a back boiler all I have found did not require power.

So what is required is to know what power is supplied to that socket? I would guess not less than 13A but guess is not good enough. As to fire the problem is plugs should be in free air and if there is not enough air circulating it could over heat. With a 2kW unlikely to be a problem with a 3kW it may overheat and may be better with a fused connection unit (FCU) which can better dissipate the heat.

sparkwright · 30 Mar 2014

Pictures of everything would be most welcome here, also we may find an easy way of making the switch accessible.

Can you send photos?

banjo67xxx · 30 Mar 2014

sparkwright said:
Can you send photos?

Sure, no problem ...

1) The chimney. In which you can see the water pipes, electrical supply and gas flue. Gas supply pipe has been removed from the right wall of the chimney and capped off.

2) The face plate from the back boiler which I haven't thrown away yet

3) The side of the electric fireplace surround, where you can see no room for lead to come from behind.

4) Finally the fire in situ. The lead is not visible because its at the back

If I must run the fire off the ring main, then atleast it should be possible to drill through the polyfiller where the gas supply was, and take a feed from the 2-gang socket via a fused switch. However, I've just finished filling and painting that section of wall.

viewer · 30 Mar 2014

Can you cut and cap the water pipes outside the chimney breast and put the cable through the now empty section?

banjo67xxx · 30 Mar 2014

viewer said:
Can you cut and cap the water pipes outside the chimney breast and put the cable through the now empty section?

I see what you're getting at, but that direction doesn't help as the left of the chimney goes to a void in the kichen where the water main and heating pipes route upstairs. However, there was a gas pipe to the right of the chimney which would come out close to a 2-gang socket on the downstairs ring. Unfortunately, I've already filled and painted where the gas pipe came out.

I know if I drill through the filler and then hollow out a back box, I can connect to the ring main and make everything comply with Part P. But that's a lot of work especially when there's already a live cable on the central heating circuit just sitting there in exactly the right place (I only need 8A).

Just found the fireplace specifications and its only a 2kW one
http://www.homebase.co.uk/webapp/wc...ay?langId=110&storeId=10151&partNumber=026181

So the big question is. Is it ok to use the central heating circuit to power the electric fire, or do I have to drill holes, create a back box, and wire into the ring main using a fused spur?

Taylortwocities · 31 Mar 2014

If you look at the old plate you will see that the control wiring ius fused at only 3 amp. This is usual for heating control circuits.
So the supply will probably run from whatever valves/pumps etc that controls when the back boiler operates.

The cable also will probably only be rated for control circuitry. So not suitable for running a 2KW fire!

You could find out where that white cable comes from and then see if a suitable feed could come from there, but you'd need ha lot of help to sort that.

But, really, it would be the EASIEST and PROPER thing to do by putting a 13A fused spur next to that existing socket and taking the cable from the new fire through the wall.

bernardgreen · 31 Mar 2014

I would remove the back box of the double socket

Drill from behind the back box into the fire hearth for a cable.

Then replace the double back box with a dual back box ( slightly wider ) and fit a single socket and a fused switched outlet in the dual box.

edit Drill the hole in line with one of the knock outs in the dual back box

I would also use flexible conduit to protect the cable from any acidic material in the brickwork. ( damp soot can be acidic ).

Also I would remove the learning aids from the fire place as they will attract children to the fire place which will be hazardous

banjo67xxx · 31 Mar 2014

Thanks.

I started to hollow out a new back box for the fused switched spur and the masonary behind just fell away revealling the path of the old gas pipe.

Got a new problem now .... (as its different question, started a new thread)

BTW, to protect the wiring from the soot I decided to use an IP66 socket and I'll put all the cables inside flexible conduit.

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Can I run electric fire from back boiler supply?

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