Advice please..Lime Mortar question for field wall rebuild.

jonathan63 · 23 Jun 2014

Hi there and hello,

I am handy with most things and I have stone field wall to rebuild. The stone is smooth beach pebbles and the mortar has to be lime mortar rather than the usual dry stone field wall.
The more I read about lime mortar the more confusing it becomes.

I have about 90m (by 1.2 high) to rebuild as economically as possible. The site is exposed and the stuff will have to be hand mixed (there is no power on site).

Q: which lime and at what mix ratio would you recommend?

Many thanks

Jonathan

pinenot · 23 Jun 2014

As you are embarking on such a large project and lime mortar remains open for some time, I would contact a local supplier, Eden Lime are the best place for local advise in Cumbria, try giving them a phone they may be able to advise better...pinenot

jonathan63 · 23 Jun 2014

Cheers mate. Thanks for that.
Having done a bit more research I should have been a bit more specific with my question: should I use hydraulic 3.5 and mix it dry with sand (as you would with Portland cement) or Hydrated and make a wet putty to mix wet with sand?

So far I am leaning towards NHL 3.5 for ease of use.
Its a bit pricey though.

theoldun · 23 Jun 2014

Before answering your question.
1 Who told you to use line mortar?
2 What is the average size are these so called smooth beach pebbles?
3 What is width of wall?
4 Is wall vertical on both faces or are faces battered?
Regards oldun

stuart45 · 23 Jun 2014

Lot of work mixing NHL by hand. Needs 20 mins in the mixer, left for 20, then mixed up for a couple more. Lot of money too. That's why dry walling in popular in fields.

tony1851 · 23 Jun 2014

Why use lime mortar in the first place?

jonathan63 · 23 Jun 2014

Thanks all. To answer as many questions as possible:
* We live on the coast of Cumbria and the field walls here are of smooth round beach stone/pebbles. Typically 2"-3" x 6"-8".
* Natural England (who are part funding this) have specified Lime Mortar because that is the original construction and is typical here.
* The wall will be c42" high, c14" wide at base and c6" where the coping stones sit.

I am now sourcing an electric drum mixer. Ill mix, leave, remix and take to the job (400m) in batches.

I aim to do it in linear lengths of 3' by 14" high at a time.

Cheers.

stuart45 · 23 Jun 2014

Mix is normally 3/1. Sand is often 50%/50% sharp/ building sand. The building sand makes it easier to use.

jonathan63 · 23 Jun 2014

Speaking to a supplier today who says that his NHL 3.5 is english (£13 +vat) and all the continental NHL 3.5 is rubbish and hard to use.

But the stuff from Mike Wye is 2/3 the price (£8.65 +vat).??????

Any experience from you guys?

stuart45 · 23 Jun 2014

Mike Wye products are fine. As long as you mix it up right there should be no problem.
Remember to protect it from the sun.

theoldun · 25 Jun 2014

Natural England. Have a lot of respect for their aims, objectives and achievements, but why oh why. does another lot of tree huggers, live in a different world.
Just because the old boys who built those walls couple of hundred years ago, used lime mortar, as that was all they had in those days, why oh why do we have to continue down that route in this modern age, building hard cobbles exposed both sides, not required to breathe, and with high freeze thaw and wet dry cycle out in the middle of no where . Rant over.

You have two options. Either use NHL3.5 Powder and supply you own aggregate, and face all the mixing problems. Or use pre gauged lime and aggregate in the same bag and just tip straight in your mixer and turn it out 5 minutes later. This is the one we normally use, as though it is a lot more expensive, it is more user and labour friendly.
You can buy this from Conserv or through Lime Centre. Winchester. You will need deep pockets.
Both Hydraulic and Non Hydraulic Lime are different animals to sand and cement, and take a lot of getting used to. Any information that you require then please come back.
Regards oldun

jonathan63 · 25 Jun 2014

Thanks for that Oldun. I have never used Lime mortar before and Im looking forward to it. I can get Hanson NHL 3.5 for £12 Locally and Secil NHL 3.5 from Mike Wye for £7.90.

With delivery there is only £50 in it.

If you were doing the job, which would you prefer to use, Hanson or Secil?

And am I right in thinking that I mix it 3:1 in a drum mixer in the same way I would sand and cement. Then leave it for an hour and mix it again for 10 minutes.

Cheers

stuart45 · 25 Jun 2014

20 minutes is enough to let it stand. When you first mix it don't put too much water in the mixer. It may look dry for a while, but it will get wetter on it's own as it mixes. It's different to mixing up sand/cement.

jonathan63 · 25 Jun 2014

Cheers Stuart. Good tip, will remember that.

Will the Hanson stuff be different to the Secil stuff or is there nothing in it?

stuart45 · 25 Jun 2014

I doubt you will notice any difference.

diynot

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Advice please..Lime Mortar question for field wall rebuild.

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