A number of factors can affect it. Ventilation, existing lung function, amount of fibres inhaled. The risk is there.
Like I said, my dad died of it.
Like I said, my dad died of it.
have I just been breaking up asbestos boards unknowningly?
- Thread starter dragonfly101
- Start date
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Yes you have already told us that and we are all sorry to hear that, nevertheless I find it find it very hard for anyone to argue that what the OP has been exposed to is likely to have any measurable impact on his health long term.
What you said was you don't think people have died from breaking a few sheets of asbestos. Which I merely pointed out was so wrong it's unbelievable. Before giving advice to someone, you should really think first.
Please provide evidence that breaking a few sheets of asbestos is going to kill you or even measurably increase your chances of dying because of it.
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I also removed what I think were Asbestos Sofit boards and an old shed roof from my 1930's house and garden shed. My pop tells me its probably mixed Asbestolux cement boards and it'll have a low percentage.
I didn't really have must protection, I was outdoors though, I'm pretty sure I dampened the area with water before popping them out and minimised breaking them as much as possible.
I wore a respirator mask, although the filter wasn't an Asbestos one. Clothes were washed straight after, the jacket I wore binned.
Does that mean I've potentially sealed my early demise?
My doc wasn't too worried, I had a chest x-ray for an infection and he couldn't spot anything that alarmed him, although I know these are microscopic fibres.
I didn't really have must protection, I was outdoors though, I'm pretty sure I dampened the area with water before popping them out and minimised breaking them as much as possible.
I wore a respirator mask, although the filter wasn't an Asbestos one. Clothes were washed straight after, the jacket I wore binned.
Does that mean I've potentially sealed my early demise?
My doc wasn't too worried, I had a chest x-ray for an infection and he couldn't spot anything that alarmed him, although I know these are microscopic fibres.
I'd done a few then thought it best to find out and it seems as its a 1930's house it was probably they were.
I just assumed (hoped!) that as I was out up on the roof outside, they were dampened and there were only about 10 (30 x 60 cm) boards to remove, I'd be at a minimal risk.
I read up on my local council's website and although it recommends using a professional firm, it does also say if you choose to remove it, do the above precautions.
Of course in hind site, I should of just painted them and stuck upvc sofits up over them...
I just assumed (hoped!) that as I was out up on the roof outside, they were dampened and there were only about 10 (30 x 60 cm) boards to remove, I'd be at a minimal risk.
I read up on my local council's website and although it recommends using a professional firm, it does also say if you choose to remove it, do the above precautions.
Of course in hind site, I should of just painted them and stuck upvc sofits up over them...
M
munchingB
my missus is by no means an expert on asbestos but she is a biologist and says that it is only the fibres that you need to worry about exhaling, being quite large fibres it is quite easy to protect yourself and find them about your person if you were looking for them. when asbestos is a dust then the concern is more often about long term exposure and it having a cumulative effect on your health. do the googling for yourself, but it is a naturally occurring silicate mineral if it makes you feel any better too.
people dont show a fraction of concern when handling cement or aggregates all day when silicocis is equally likely to kill you and who can they that they have ever seen anyone wearing a mask whilst mixing concrete?
i know one person who has half of one lung left to live with having spent a lifetime working in builders yards.
maybe there is room on here for a health and safety forum...maybe the odd professional will chip in and the scaremongering asbestos control will learn for themselves and stop spouting the same spiel the punters get.
its illegal to chop your grass dude as you might have an anaphylatxic shock..i'll do it for you £500 and i'll even wear a world war II gas mask for you : )
i dont know what local authority whoever posted here lives in but that is absolute rubbish that it is illegal to knowingly tamper or remove asbestos materials from your home.
people dont show a fraction of concern when handling cement or aggregates all day when silicocis is equally likely to kill you and who can they that they have ever seen anyone wearing a mask whilst mixing concrete?
i know one person who has half of one lung left to live with having spent a lifetime working in builders yards.
maybe there is room on here for a health and safety forum...maybe the odd professional will chip in and the scaremongering asbestos control will learn for themselves and stop spouting the same spiel the punters get.
its illegal to chop your grass dude as you might have an anaphylatxic shock..i'll do it for you £500 and i'll even wear a world war II gas mask for you : )
i dont know what local authority whoever posted here lives in but that is absolute rubbish that it is illegal to knowingly tamper or remove asbestos materials from your home.
M
munchingB
robb-sorry if its a sensitive issue but can you tell us how your father was exposed to asbestos?
Na, its not sensitive at all. It has been 10 years since he has died.
He was a time served joiner for nigh on 40 years. He was exposed to asbestos during a demolition of some Glasgow flats in the 70s. He said he would remember the fibres floating in the air and everyone breathing them in (not knowing the risk).
A few of his friends have died of the same thing (mesothelioma asbestosis). They were exposed 30-40 year ago when tearing out old insulation from a house.
When dealing with asbestos, I would definitely be very careful. Not just cos of what happened to my dad... its just not worth the risk of breaking a few sheets for someone to say the risk is low.
Sorry to hear of your dad's illness, Rob.
As a joiner, your dad (and his colleagues) would have been exposed to very high fibre levels, on a frequent basis. Although they might remember one particularly-dusty job, in actual fact, handling and cutting asbestos-containing materials was a significant part of their daily work. In fact, "joiner" is listed as the most vulnerable of all UK occupations (source: HSE Research Report RR696, extract pasted below)
"CONCLUSIONS
1. Mesothelioma risk is determined largely by asbestos exposure before age 30, and ranges from
a lifetime risk of 1 in 17 for ten or more years of carpentry before age 30 to less than 1 in 1,000
in apparently unexposed men and women. Our results suggest that the predicted total of 90,000
mesotheliomas in Britain between 1970 and 2050 will include approximately 15,000 carpenters.
2. The risk of lung cancer caused by asbestos is likely to be of the same order as the
mesothelioma risk. This would imply that more than 1 in 10 of British carpenters born in the
1940s with more than 10 years of employment in carpentry before age 30 will die of a cancer
caused by asbestos."
Mesothelioma and asbestosis are two different diseases.
Asbestosis is (as someone quite rightly posted earlier) currently believed to be caused by relatively-high cumulative exposures - think in the "hours per day, days, per week, weeks per year" range, and not "Oh - I've just kicked a ceiling down" range.
Mesothelioma is currently believed to be more likely for higher exposures, but there are many cases of death where no obvious asbestos exposure has been recalled. Which leads to the current simplest explanation of "small exposures to asbestos may lead to mesothelioma".
So, you are right to caution against even small and "inconsequential" exposures to asbestos - is it really worth the risk. But your dad was, with almost absolute certainty, exposed to a sight more asbestos than the demolition of some flats in Glasgow.
As a joiner, your dad (and his colleagues) would have been exposed to very high fibre levels, on a frequent basis. Although they might remember one particularly-dusty job, in actual fact, handling and cutting asbestos-containing materials was a significant part of their daily work. In fact, "joiner" is listed as the most vulnerable of all UK occupations (source: HSE Research Report RR696, extract pasted below)
"CONCLUSIONS
1. Mesothelioma risk is determined largely by asbestos exposure before age 30, and ranges from
a lifetime risk of 1 in 17 for ten or more years of carpentry before age 30 to less than 1 in 1,000
in apparently unexposed men and women. Our results suggest that the predicted total of 90,000
mesotheliomas in Britain between 1970 and 2050 will include approximately 15,000 carpenters.
2. The risk of lung cancer caused by asbestos is likely to be of the same order as the
mesothelioma risk. This would imply that more than 1 in 10 of British carpenters born in the
1940s with more than 10 years of employment in carpentry before age 30 will die of a cancer
caused by asbestos."
Mesothelioma and asbestosis are two different diseases.
Asbestosis is (as someone quite rightly posted earlier) currently believed to be caused by relatively-high cumulative exposures - think in the "hours per day, days, per week, weeks per year" range, and not "Oh - I've just kicked a ceiling down" range.
Mesothelioma is currently believed to be more likely for higher exposures, but there are many cases of death where no obvious asbestos exposure has been recalled. Which leads to the current simplest explanation of "small exposures to asbestos may lead to mesothelioma".
So, you are right to caution against even small and "inconsequential" exposures to asbestos - is it really worth the risk. But your dad was, with almost absolute certainty, exposed to a sight more asbestos than the demolition of some flats in Glasgow.
No one can quantify the risk because no one knows what material the OP has been exposed to or if that exposure was above the occupational exposure limit. If one of my site staff has an unplanned exposure to asbestos then the bottom line is that they get a medical assessment including lung function test and they are reassessed at regular intervals to ensure there have been no long term adverse affects.
If it is asbestos cement then the chrysotile is bound in the cement matrix and is very low risk, it it was highly friable AIB then that's a different story.
Someone suggested 'painting' asbestos before removal, frankly that's not a good idea and it's rather costly and unnecessary, I wouldn't advocate removing anything but asbestos cement gutters, down pipes etc and then I'd simply spray the asbestos with a mix of PVA and water from a spray gun bottle. Also make sure you read the HSE guidance on removing low risk products, all freely available on the HSE website here... http://www.hse.gov.uk/asbestos/essentials/index.htm#a1
If it is asbestos cement then the chrysotile is bound in the cement matrix and is very low risk, it it was highly friable AIB then that's a different story.
Someone suggested 'painting' asbestos before removal, frankly that's not a good idea and it's rather costly and unnecessary, I wouldn't advocate removing anything but asbestos cement gutters, down pipes etc and then I'd simply spray the asbestos with a mix of PVA and water from a spray gun bottle. Also make sure you read the HSE guidance on removing low risk products, all freely available on the HSE website here... http://www.hse.gov.uk/asbestos/essentials/index.htm#a1
Some councils like Hertfordshire, take away small amounts of personal asbestos for free. We knocked down some old huts in the garden when we bought our house and the roofing were asbestos sheets (wavey type patterns).
We probably had about 10 sheets, some broken into pieces, but averaged about 1m by 0.7m and they took them all as long as we double bagged them in plastic.
We probably had about 10 sheets, some broken into pieces, but averaged about 1m by 0.7m and they took them all as long as we double bagged them in plastic.
With all due respect and sympathy to you robbieee, you appear to have your lines crossed somewhat. Brigadier has gone a long way to correct matters. Asbestosis and mesothelioma are two distinctly different diseases, do not mix the terminology, even though asbestos may be a common factor.
Asbestosis is primarily a disease of congestion in the lung tissue due to mass inhalation of the asbestos fibres i.e. long term exposure. I have a more distant relative who died of asbestosis over 2 decades ago. He worked for many, many years as an industrial lagger in the days when, in his workplaces, asbestos fibres were so thick in the air it was like fog.
However, the real danger of asbestos (which some people knew about in the 1930s but kept silent) was its ability to induce cancers and began to be revealed in the 1970s. Initially Blue Asbestos (aka Crocidolite) was implicated in causing Mesothelioma (cancer) and was the first to be banned.
Other forms of asbestos e.g.white asbestos (Chrysotile), were deemed 'safe' at that time, information which was later retracted leading to a total ban. It has been declared that penetration of the lung by even a single tiny fibre could induce a mesothelioma, the only saving grace was that actual probability - nasal hairs/mucus membrane giving some protection. You might say, a bit like playing "asbestos roulette".
Given the wretched substance that it is, asbestos bound in cement in good condition, typically fire resistance cladding often called asbestolux, is best left undisturbed if possible as it won't release the fibres.
New materials for fire resistance were introduced, like 'supalux' which are safe and asbestos free. However, the untrained eye would not easily distinguish between the two and a number of alleged asbestos incidents were actually these more modern fire cladding panels.
Hope this further clarifies things but remember it is always better to err on the safe side.
Asbestosis is primarily a disease of congestion in the lung tissue due to mass inhalation of the asbestos fibres i.e. long term exposure. I have a more distant relative who died of asbestosis over 2 decades ago. He worked for many, many years as an industrial lagger in the days when, in his workplaces, asbestos fibres were so thick in the air it was like fog.
However, the real danger of asbestos (which some people knew about in the 1930s but kept silent) was its ability to induce cancers and began to be revealed in the 1970s. Initially Blue Asbestos (aka Crocidolite) was implicated in causing Mesothelioma (cancer) and was the first to be banned.
Other forms of asbestos e.g.white asbestos (Chrysotile), were deemed 'safe' at that time, information which was later retracted leading to a total ban. It has been declared that penetration of the lung by even a single tiny fibre could induce a mesothelioma, the only saving grace was that actual probability - nasal hairs/mucus membrane giving some protection. You might say, a bit like playing "asbestos roulette".
Given the wretched substance that it is, asbestos bound in cement in good condition, typically fire resistance cladding often called asbestolux, is best left undisturbed if possible as it won't release the fibres.
New materials for fire resistance were introduced, like 'supalux' which are safe and asbestos free. However, the untrained eye would not easily distinguish between the two and a number of alleged asbestos incidents were actually these more modern fire cladding panels.
Hope this further clarifies things but remember it is always better to err on the safe side.
I know a guy whos wife did a lot of studies for a university on asbestos and she said most asbestos wont harm you unless you've got long term exposure, however the really nasty stuff is the blue asbestos, which can cause damage immediately, but luckily it wasn't used as much as the rest.
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