Ring not a ring

JohnW2 · 27 Jul 2014

ban-all-sheds said:
DaftPunk said:

winston1 said:

Rings and spurs are wired in 2.5mm cable. A ring has 2 paths back to the fuse or MCB whereas a spur only has one between itself and the ring so the total load is limited.

Click to expand...

Wrong again whinny boy. When are you going to stop making a fool of your self on here?

Click to expand...

Can you be more specific on what you think is wrong?

Quite. Apart from the absence of the word 'usually' ('nearly always' is probably closer), it seems reasonable enough statement to me - and, in particular, a reasonable answer to the question which was being addressed.

I'm certainly no fan of winston1 when he is in his repetitive, very irritating, pedanticism/nonsense mode, but I think he's being unfairly criticised on this occasion.

Kind Regards, John

winston1 · 27 Jul 2014

DaftPunk said:
winston1 said:

Rings and spurs are wired in 2.5mm cable. A ring has 2 paths back to the fuse or MCB whereas a spur only has one between itself and the ring so the total load is limited.

Click to expand...

Wrong again whinny boy. When are you going to stop making a fool of your self on here?

Still being rude then?

So what cable do you think rings are wired in then?
What cable do you think spurs are wired in then?
How many paths back to the fuse/MCB do you think a ring has?
How many paths do you think a spur has back to the ring?

garlicbread · 27 Jul 2014

So what cable do you think rings are wired in then?
What cable do you think spurs are wired in then?

What ever size you want them, and the circuit is designed to be.

bandejapaisa · 27 Jul 2014

ban-all-sheds said:
Err....

SimonH2 said:

At work I took some wiring out of our server room when I rebuilt it and sorted out the electrics. I'm not a professional spark... Just a keen amateur.

Click to expand...

Are you and you employer familiar with your duties and responsibilities in the Electricity At Work Regulations, and with the terms & conditions in the tenancy agreement and all the insurances?

You're really annoying.

You piped up in another of my threads with your policing/quoting of regulations.

Stay off my threads!

EFLImpudence · 27 Jul 2014

Trouble is - he's right. Annoying, isn't it?

JohnW2 · 27 Jul 2014

EFLImpudence said:
Trouble is - he's right. Annoying, isn't it?

Yes, the way in which he usually does it certainly is extremely annoying, as well as probably being counter-productive and probably being detrimental to the forum in general.

Done appropriately, his message (which, as you say, is often 'right') might sometimes get through - rather than just provoking a reaction to the language and style, rather than the content, of what he writes!

Kind Regards, John

bandejapaisa · 27 Jul 2014

He may well be right, but nobody asked for an opinion on regulations.

So anyway, back to my topic.

I didn't have a load impedance tester and didn't do the kettle and voltage checks, I went back to basics and crawled around and followed each wire. I did as suggested at the consumer unit and disconnected each half of the ring - this was a good move as I figured out which sockets were on each. I then went to each socket, disconnecting and testing the others to see which was first and last etc.

So I did a wiring diagram - and pretty much every socket was a spur from one cable from the unit.... so maybe it never was a ring.... I've now begun re-wiring it properly, removing the spurs and putting each socket on the ring. Was kinda fun.... (maybe not if I was doing it every day, but for a first time it was good).

Please don't quote any bloody regulations... I definitely haven't made it worse!

DetlefSchmitz · 27 Jul 2014

I'm not sure I understand what you did. If you break a ring, then each socket will look like a spur from the previous socket, though it is really just a radial circuit.

I can't see why (or how) you are re-wiring these.

All that is needed is to rejoin the ring somewhere.

Taylortwocities · 27 Jul 2014

bandejapaisa

You probably be doing the right thing but, when you have finished doing your rewiring, please make sure that you carry out the tests that are needed for a ring final circuit:
Continuity of each leg
Insulation resistance tests
R1+R2 measurements
Check for polarity

You must do this to test what you have done, otherwise you may have made it worse than better. Even the best most superb electrician has made wiring errors, or trapped wires when the sockets have been replaced.
The tests are necessary BEFORE you energise the circuit.

PS, I'm not sure if you mentioned the presence of an RCD on this circuit?

PS

bandejapaisa · 27 Jul 2014

DetlefSchmitz said:
I'm not sure I understand what you did. If you break a ring, then each socket will look like a spur from the previous socket, though it is really just a radial circuit.

I can't see why (or how) you are re-wiring these.

All that is needed is to rejoin the ring somewhere.

There weren't 2 ends to simply join together. If I picked an end, then some of the sockets had a spur, then another spur from that spur. Nearly every socket I opened had just one set of wires coming into it.

Why? Why not... it's an experience.

AndyPRK · 27 Jul 2014

Sounds like a typical radial. Suitable for a 20A mcb radial or 2 radials.

But if you want to have a play.

bandejapaisa · 27 Jul 2014

Taylortwocities said:
bandejapaisa

You probably be doing the right thing but, when you have finished doing your rewiring, please make sure that you carry out the tests that are needed for a ring final circuit:
Continuity of each leg
Insulation resistance tests
R1+R2 measurements
Check for polarity

You must do this to test what you have done, otherwise you may have made it worse than better. Even the best most superb electrician has made wiring errors, or trapped wires when the sockets have been replaced.
The tests are necessary BEFORE you energise the circuit.

PS, I'm not sure if you mentioned the presence of an RCD on this circuit?

PS

OK, good advice, thanks. I'm not sure how to do each of these tests yet... but the electrician will be back shortly to do the second fix of my other circuits, so I'll get him to look over my work.

So far I've only done one room - removed one socket, and another socket that had 2 spurs... instead I've turned that into one branch of the ring and then left a junction box at the end of the last socket ready to continue to the other rooms. I haven't connected up the ring yet.

Yes, it's a 16A circuit with an RCD.

SimonH2 · 27 Jul 2014

ban-all-sheds said:
Are you and you employer familiar with your duties and responsibilities in the Electricity At Work Regulations, and with the terms & conditions in the tenancy agreement and all the insurances?

Yes thank you. Now p**s off.

DetlefSchmitz · 27 Jul 2014

bandejapaisa said:
DetlefSchmitz said:

I'm not sure I understand what you did. If you break a ring, then each socket will look like a spur from the previous socket, though it is really just a radial circuit.

I can't see why (or how) you are re-wiring these.

All that is needed is to rejoin the ring somewhere.

Click to expand...

There weren't 2 ends to simply join together. If I picked an end, then some of the sockets had a spur, then another spur from that spur. Nearly every socket I opened had just one set of wires coming into it.

Why? Why not... it's an experience.

Whatever... I was just trying to help. All the best.

bandejapaisa · 27 Jul 2014

DetlefSchmitz said:
Whatever... I was just trying to help. All the best.

No probs. I appreciate the advice.

I don't feel like it's wasted effort. I've already learned about ring mains and the difference with radials, wired up new sockets for the first time... crawled around under floor boards for the first time to have a look under a 100+ year old house.

Also got some good tips on here just by raising the question... this knowledge may well come in useful in the future.

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Ring not a ring

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