Leaking inwards-opening UPVC windows - what to do?

smithers72 · 20 Oct 2014

I'm a bit green when it comes to builders and home improvements, so I need some help/advice.

We live in an 1880s Victorian house and had our cellar converted in spring this year.

In the process, our builder re-excavated the original light-wells and fitted some UPVC windows which were specified to open inwards because the light wells don't extend far enough from the house for the windows to open outwards.

I thought this was a simple requirement, but it resulted in all sorts of delays and excuses from the window supplier as though it was the most unusual, bespoke request they'd ever had. However, we got there in the end.

However, last week it rained pretty heavily here and I noticed that one of the windows had leaked. My builder came back round this morning to look at it and identified the cause to be a small hole, which allows any water building up on the inner sill of the window to drain. The problem is that it appears to drain INWARDS!

Picture:

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smithers72
20 Oct 2014
1

Can anyone who knows about UPVC windows advise how this is usually done? Surely not like this...

Also of note, there are trickle vents at the top of each window which I originally thought didn't have a control to open/close them, but whilst looking into the leak issue today I've just noticed that the controls are on the outside of the windows.

This makes me think the window supplier might have just given us standard outward-opening windows with the handles fitted on the outside.

How should the window drains work? What course of action should I take?

Nooz · 20 Oct 2014

Have a look at the underside of the sash, if the drainage holes are on the room side of the sash then it's just a normal window turned round. Plus if there's no drainage holes in the frame to the outer edge then it's a definite give away. It should also be faced drained if there's no cill, again these will be on the outside.

Personally I'd go ballistic, especially if this was stated at the point of purchase to be inward opening, it can be done, I've ordered them in the past and it's the same principal as a tilt and turn window!

Go back to your builder and the supplier and demand what you ordered.

Gazman16 · 20 Oct 2014

Can you take some overall pics of the windows?

From what I can see Im about 80% certain thats just a normal outwards opening window like you said.

Gazman16 · 21 Oct 2014

Thinking about it some more it may just be a case of the drainage holes having been drilled in the wrong side as thats where they would normally go for an outwards opening window, Could be a fairly easy fix.

Assuming its a multi chamber window (looks like a Liniar window?) The inner and outer chambers should be separate. In which case they only need to seal up the hole in your pic, Drill some new ones in the outside section, Then drill some more on the outside on the window approx 15mm up from the bottom of the frame and cover with drainage caps.

Nooz · 21 Oct 2014

Gazman's right about fixing it but I think the point is they messed up your order.
I'd complain, the industry needs shaking up and if you hadn't of noticed it then it could have done some real damage. It's up to you but if you attempt to re-drill the holes and make a mistake it will be down to you

Gazman16 · 21 Oct 2014

The suppliers or fitter should definatley be the ones to fix it. I was just saying its not as bad as I 1st thought.

Nooz · 21 Oct 2014

Totally agree with you Gazman. it just annoys me that people get paid to do a job and don't bother to learn it.
Everyone makes mistakes (I'm just as bad, forgetting to order a frame on our last job

) but they need to put it right.

DHFrames · 21 Oct 2014

Any chance of some more pics, be interested in the whole picture of whats involved
Are the glazing beads on the outside?
Is that the sill or just a trim on the inside bottom? If its a sill why is it that way??!!
You'll need a drip fitted to the sash to reduce the amount of water that gets into the profile at the bottom. Like G Man and Nooz say, the drainage will also have to be reversed and re drilled as face drain
Something doesn't seem right here, more pics would help

smithers72 · 22 Oct 2014

Thanks for all the replies. Here are a few more pics...

Interior, window closed:

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smithers72
22 Oct 2014
1

Interior, one side of window open:

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smithers72
22 Oct 2014
1

Interior, both sides of window open:

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smithers72
22 Oct 2014
1

Detail of seal, hinge, exterior beading:

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smithers72
22 Oct 2014
1

Detail of interior:

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smithers72
22 Oct 2014
1

Exterior, closed:

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smithers72
22 Oct 2014
1

DHFrames:

Since I made my first post, I noticed that the glazing beads are on the outside. I've also spoken with the MD of the window company and he claims that it's not uncommon to have the glazing beads outside - is that true? My limited understanding is that this means the window glass could simply be lifted out by someone...

There is no sill - it's just trim on the inside.

Not sure which part is the sash? If it's the ridge that runs down the centre of the inner part of the frame, the drainage holes are on the interior side (see original picture).

Assuming I have been given a 'normal' window simply fitted back to front, is there actually anything wrong with doing that so long as the drainage is filled and re-drilled in the right place?

Nooz · 22 Oct 2014

Although you can get externally glazed, it is not very common nowadays and only cheap windows ( which Liniar are not ) or if specified.

It would take me less than a minute to quietly remove your glass and be in your house without you knowing if I was that way inclined.

Well done to DHFrames for bringing this up. This is seriously not right.

Nooz · 22 Oct 2014

The sash is the opening window frame, the drainage holes should be underneath on the outer edge of this frame.

DHFrames · 22 Oct 2014

Looks like Eurocell profile to me, why couldn't the window open outwards, there seems to be plenty of room

DHFrames · 22 Oct 2014

Drainage defo in the wrong place, pour some water into those drainage holes, soon find out!!

smithers72 · 22 Oct 2014

The drain holes definitely direct water into the house rather than out - a damp patch on the inside wall was the original problem that kicked this off.

The windows have to open inwards because although this lightwell is relatively big, the other two are pretty tight - one of them only extends about 30-40cm from the house.

I've been reading about securing externally glazed windows with an additional rubber gasket on the inside. Would it be possible to properly secure these particular windows in this way or is the only option to replace them?

If they can't be secured as is, could the sash (opening bit) frames be replaced (reusing the main static frame and the glass) with externally glazed items or would the entire unit need replacing?

Sorry for all the questions - I just want to be prepared for when I next speak to the supplier and builder.

Nooz · 22 Oct 2014

They can't be secured, the gasket is extruded with the profile.

It's up to you how you want to go about this but you can just change the sashes and leave in the frame.
You can re-use the glass, hinges and handles and have new sashes made but with the glazing bead on the inside.
They are definitely Liniar, similar to Eurocell but you can tell by the groove that they've drilled into for the drainage.

I've done some pictures showing where to put in the new drainage and the sash type you have and the sash type you need.

If you go for this option then you need to make sure that they understand that if putting the drainage into the existing frames doesn't work then they will have to be replaced and also it is not to affect your guarantee.

One other thing that it's best to check is that the glass is toughened, it will need to be in this position ( sorry to pile extra on to you

)

Picture Title

Nooz
22 Oct 2014
1

Your drainage needs to come out of the front of the frame, caps are available to cover the holes

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Nooz
22 Oct 2014
1

This is T section

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Nooz
22 Oct 2014
1

You need Z section for the glazing bead to be on the inside.

I hope this all makes sense and I wish you luck with your builder/supplier

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Leaking inwards-opening UPVC windows - what to do?

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