Boiler Replacement - The Big Guys vs The Little Guys?

First-time-buyer · 1 Nov 2014

So far we've had quotes from some of the larger companies for a boiler replacement, to replace from a Floor Standing Boiler to a Combi.

The boiler is a 1985 Ideal Mexico, RS30 vented system, with a gravity hot water system heated by the Boiler & an Immersion Heater.

Big Guy - British Gas. Over £4500 for the replacement.
Big Guy - Plumb. £2800 for the replacement.

Little Guy - Local - £1700 (Includes 10mtrs copper)
Little Guy - Kinda Local - £1790 (Includes 10mtrs copper, Free PR, Wired Stat)

Big Guys say that the little guys will do the job wrong, not as good as us etc...

The boiler (Ideal Logic with 7yr Warranty) is about £800 (retail) which leaves £900 for Labour / Parts.

Are the Big Guys Right? Or are the Little Guys pricing the job right...

simb82 · 1 Nov 2014

Not long completed a similar job although boiler was moved into loft, so more like 30odd meters of extra copper. Decent boiler fitted though and lpg. 2.5 days. Wireless programmer retained. Job done to current standards.

little guy = 2400

First-time-buyer · 1 Nov 2014

Little Guy..

Boiler going on same wall, nearly all pipes come from above, with 2x 15mm going to the floor. Gas is currently 22mm.

Existing Flue removed and bricked up with no plastering inside, us to provide the bricks.

Said it would take 1x full day...

45yearsagasman · 1 Nov 2014

When you say "gravity hot water" what do YOU mean? The accepted meaning is gravity circulation to the hot water cylinder from the boiler. How many water pipes are connected to the existing boiler?

twgas · 1 Nov 2014

You need to compare the whole quote, the small guy will almost always be cheaper than the big guy. As for getting a better job, there are good and bad everywhere so, unless you know otherwise, its a bit of a gamble.

FiremanT · 1 Nov 2014

45yearsagasman said:
When you say "gravity hot water" what do YOU mean? The accepted meaning is gravity circulation to the hot water cylinder from the boiler. How many water pipes are connected to the existing boiler?

Why does it really matter if a combi is going in? Only issue is if a pump or motorised valves are tucked away underneath boards etc. And scrap value

doitall · 1 Nov 2014

Are the prices including VAT.

If you have gravity primaries from the boiler to the cylinder, then you need to convert to a fully pumped system, in which case 1700 sounds very cheap more so if it includes the vat.

Without looking or having the information £2500 inc sounds a reasonable price, when I was working we could comfortably knock a 1000 quid of a BG quote for a good job.

DP · 1 Nov 2014

It does not matter who is replacing the boiler. Some important factors you can ignor at your peril ( both big boys and little guys might turn a blind eye to these)

1. Existing gas line most likely will be substandard. This is often ignored or wrongly sized in upgrade

2. Mexico will have plenty sediment in it as will low points in the system. Clean thoroughly or warranty not worth the paper it is printed on.

3. Hot water delivery from combi poor and when it breaks down, you may have no heating or hot water

4. when you go from 20 plus year old vented system to sealed, every joint and fitting needs to be sound to 3 bar pressure. Loss of one drop of water an hour will require boiler topping up every couple of weeks to detriment of system

There are other points, but above are essential in my book. I do not do many boiler changes but see plenty that have Been hashed up. Went to see one installation last week where all joint (except on gas line) were plastic, could see daylight around the flue, vent discharging onto public footpath, condensate discharging onto the floor. Also boiler not working, so client will need to call the boiler makers for warranty call which could be a problem

45yearsagasman · 1 Nov 2014

FiremanT said:
45yearsagasman said:

When you say "gravity hot water" what do YOU mean? The accepted meaning is gravity circulation to the hot water cylinder from the boiler. How many water pipes are connected to the existing boiler?

Click to expand...

Why does it really matter if a combi is going in? Only issue is if a pump or motorised valves are tucked away underneath boards etc. And scrap value

Yes, you're right FT. That'll teach me to read the post in full next time.

Another senior moment!

doitall · 1 Nov 2014

45yearsagasman said:
FiremanT said:

45yearsagasman said:

When you say "gravity hot water" what do YOU mean? The accepted meaning is gravity circulation to the hot water cylinder from the boiler. How many water pipes are connected to the existing boiler?

Click to expand...

Why does it really matter if a combi is going in? Only issue is if a pump or motorised valves are tucked away underneath boards etc. And scrap value

Click to expand...

Yes, you're right FT. That'll teach me to read the post in full next time.
Another senior moment!

I speed read it as well

DP makes some good points.

Testing system and powerflush is a most. When I changed mine over to a combi the washing machine hoses lasted about 10 mins, The shower valve didn't appreciate high pressure either.

Agile · 1 Nov 2014

At first from speed reading I thought that someone else was charging even less than I do.

Then I saw that it was changing from a conventional boiler to a combi.

And it was using a cheaper combi.

So my price would have been about £2100 but that would have been using a Viessmann, Vaillant or an Intergas.

Tony

Dean744PiN5 · 1 Nov 2014

does that include a magnetic filter tony?

Agile · 1 Nov 2014

No magnetic filter. £95 extra if required by the customer.

But my strategy is that I properly clean the system and so no mag filter is needed.

We did not have then until six years ago and just cleaned the system properly.

Now it seems people fit them as an alternative to proper cleansing. Worse, virtually none I ever see have had any arrangement to check and empty them.

When I do fit them, I either instruct the customer how to clean them if they wish to or arrange to go back myself after 2-3 weeks to empty it.

Tony

Richardthe3rd · 2 Nov 2014

DP said:
It does not matter who is replacing the boiler. Some important factors you can ignor at your peril ( both big boys and little guys might turn a blind eye to these)

1. Existing gas line most likely will be substandard. This is often ignored or wrongly sized in upgrade

2. Mexico will have plenty sediment in it as will low points in the system. Clean thoroughly or warranty not worth the paper it is printed on.

3. Hot water delivery from combi poor and when it breaks down, you may have no heating or hot water

4. when you go from 20 plus year old vented system to sealed, every joint and fitting needs to be sound to 3 bar pressure. Loss of one drop of water an hour will require boiler topping up every couple of weeks to detriment of system

There are other points, but above are essential in my book. I do not do many boiler changes but see plenty that have Been hashed up. Went to see one installation last week where all joint (except on gas line) were plastic, could see daylight around the flue, vent discharging onto public footpath, condensate discharging onto the floor. Also boiler not working, so client will need to call the boiler makers for warranty call which could be a problem

I think I'd give close consideration to the installer who has pointed out or included these items. Also, considering the potential for leaks, I'd ensure they can/will respond to a call quickly.

denso13 · 2 Nov 2014

Sometimes you might go with the Big Guy and the Little Guy turns up to fit it on behalf of the Big Guy anyway.

diynot

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Boiler Replacement - The Big Guys vs The Little Guys?

Dean744PiN5

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