2 consumer units - confused!!

kevindgas · 10 May 2015

So having looked up the onsite and the main 7671 books I cant find an answer!!

scenario

main house 2 consumer units 1 normal 10 way and an economy 7 cu separate.

then a 2nd CU supplied from 1st in an extension and a 3rd supplied from 2nd in a shed

the 2nd one is the one in question!

the 2nd is a 10 way split load board served from a 63A type 2 MCB on the 1st CU. they are 7 metres apart and the cable is 10mm T&E under floors in wall etc all loose cable no insulation.

the load on the 2nd CU is
a smoke alarm circuit with 4 smoke alarms and 1 heat
a outdoor power circuit 4mm radial supplying a double outside box and a shed (3rd consumer unit in shed) with 20A MCB to double socket(2.5T&E) and 6A MCB to a light (1.5T&E)
An electric boiler 6KW max (running underfloor wet heating)
2 Radial Socket circuits 32A MCB's 4.00 T&E cable 2 metres max
1 radial circuit 6A MCB for heating controller/pump 1.5 T&E cable 1.5 metres max
1 radial circuit 6A MCB for single impeller pump (hot water boost as combitank installed in house (no pressure) 2.5 T&E cable 3 metres max
2 lighting circuits 6A MCB's 1.5 T&E cable 4 metres max 2 down lighters on each

What is wrong with the current install (if anything) and how would you improve it? customer needs to sort it as holding up sale of house because 2 electricians have said its wrong but not why!
total load I would say is 7.5 - 8Kw on maximum demand.

edited: as MCB is 63A not 50 as I first posted.

Essex1 · 10 May 2015

Has either of those electricians given the home owner an EICR?

EFLImpudence · 10 May 2015

Who employed the two electricians?

Sounds as if they are reporting to the buyer as they haven't told your customer anything.
It should be the buyers who pay for inspection if they want one.

Tell customer to say the sale price accounts for whatever problems are found - buy or go away.

JohnW2 · 10 May 2015

EFLImpudence said:
Tell customer to say the sale price accounts for whatever problems are found - buy or go away.

Indeed - as I'm always saying, that's the approach I've always taken, particularly when 'issues' are apparent on visual inspection, and it usually shuts the buyers up.

Kind Regards, John

AndyPRK · 10 May 2015

If the 2nd cu is protected by an rcd in the first cu it could be a pain

kevindgas · 10 May 2015

the "sparks" were both associated with builders!! need I say more! both were invited round by 2 separate buyers the first buyer has backed out the 2nd is iminant!! its a house connected to family and i'm not 100% sure on whether its right or wrong (only part qualified myself and not come across this before)

no RCD in 1st CU just a 100A isolator and a 63A MCB

AndyPRK · 10 May 2015

Sure the 63a isn't an rcd ? Does it have a test button ?

Essex1 · 10 May 2015

EFLImpudence said:
Who employed the two electricians?

Sounds as if they are reporting to the buyer as they haven't told your customer anything.
It should be the buyers who pay for inspection if they want one.

Tell customer to say the sale price accounts for whatever problems are found - buy or go away.

Unless the works were likely to have been carried out since Part P was brought in and there is no record of it.

JohnW2 · 10 May 2015

Essex1 said:
Unless the works were likely to have been carried out since Part P was brought in and there is no record of it.

That doesn't really make any difference, despite so many people's fears. The only important thing is not to lie (which can theoretically result in grief). If it's the case, just tell them that some electrical work has been undertaken since 1st Jan 2005 and that you have no certificates or paperwork (and that you knew all that when you set the asking price) - and to "put that in their pipe and smoke it"!

Kind Regards, John

flameport · 10 May 2015

kevindgas said:
the 2nd is a 10 way split load board served from a 63A type 2 MCB on the 1st CU. they are 7 metres apart and the cable is 10mm T&E under floors in wall etc all loose cable no insulation.

The 10mm is marginal for a 63A MCB, and disconnection time may not be met depending on the supply characteristics.

However nothing else is obviously wrong.

Essex1 · 10 May 2015

Without a full periodic test then the incoming buyer has no idea whether the place needs a full re-wire or a couple of minor repairs. You cannot blame them for being on the cautious side.

My advice is pay a few hundred quid and get a full report carried out. Then you will know exactly where you stand. At the moment it is all just guess work on our part.

EFLImpudence · 10 May 2015

Essex1 said:
Without a full periodic test then the incoming buyer has no idea whether the place needs a full re-wire or a couple of minor repairs. You cannot blame them for being on the cautious side.

Then he must judge the price on that.

My advice is pay a few hundred quid and get a full report carried out. Then you will know exactly where you stand. At the moment it is all just guess work on our part.

That is wrong advice; there is the likelihood that a buyer may not trust the seller's inspection.
It is up to the buyer to commission one if he wants it.
Had it just been rewired, the buyer would still not know how well it had been done - and the price would have been £10,000 more.

kevindgas · 10 May 2015

thanks yes I thought the 63A was a tad close and yes it is a type B MCB as I stated
the chances of everything ever being on load is highly unlikely and it has never tripped in 2 years
yes it needs signing off hence trying to get the definitive answer as its my father in laws place we built the extension and it is all but completed and signed off by Building Control but this came up twice so I started to doubt myself!

JohnW2 · 10 May 2015

Essex1 said:
Without a full periodic test then the incoming buyer has no idea whether the place needs a full re-wire or a couple of minor repairs. You cannot blame them for being on the cautious side.

In that case, it is for the buyer to commission (and pay for) an independent EICR. However, as the selling, I would make it clear that, no matter what the EICR said, I would not entertain any attempts to drop the price because of it - since I had already set the price in the (general) knowledge of the state of the property.

Essex1 said:
My advice is pay a few hundred quid and get a full report carried out. Then you will know exactly where you stand. At the moment it is all just guess work on our part.

As above, if anyone wants to pay for an EICR, it should be the prospective buyer. Furthermore, as EFLI has said, prospective buyers often do not trust reports that have been commissioned by the seller.

Kind Regards, John

kevindgas · 10 May 2015

I don't need to pay for the EICR as I can do it. the question was what if anything is incorrect in the install as I believe it is correct although close to limit on the 63A MCB - 2nd CU via the 10mm cable. I'm confident that it is safe and within limits but looking to see what others think. have considered reducing the MCB but its the "experts" visiting that made Me question!

I am going to get our local inspector to visit and see what he thinks (with test results which have still to be completed)

As said I have Quals but not enough experience on such a set up.

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2 consumer units - confused!!

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