Any Views on Vaillant ecoTEC Plus combination boiler

Benny5 · 6 Jun 2015

Agile said:
OK you have a heat only boiler and a cylinder.

Your current boiler is a fairly old one but simple and fairly reliable although the PCBs and fan will fail every 10 years or so and cost about £130 each plus fitting.
Tony

Its certainly old (26years) and even more basic than the one you described. In fact its hasn't a fan nor functioning PCB's (the pump overrun circuit was never activated).

Agile said:
A modern condensing boiler will save about 25% on the gas bill. Your gas bill will be about £625 pa and so would give a saving of about £160 pa.

Modifications are required to convert a simple installation like yours and will then result in a much reduced hot water flow rate.

I always recommend a cylinder storage system be retained as it gives so much better hot water performance.

To simply replace the boiler with a new heat only would be close to £1500. But that will only give you an 11% return on the capital cost. Fitting a combi would reduce the hot water performance and reduce the saving to about 6% so even worse.

So my advice would be to either repair the Solo or replace with a heat only.

Your Solo is pretty reliable and could go on for several years, but even at £350 would still be a better deal for a few years although ultimately it will need replacing.

I do hope he has correctly diagnosed the gas valve as at fault. Did he say exactly what he thinks has failed on it?

Tony

Thank you for that contribution. I hadn't given too much consideration to cost savings, concentrating more on getting it sorted. On reflection, our HW usage is low (2 occupant house) shower used in preference to baths. Typically the water is set for an hour run early in the morning and that cylinder full covers our needs for most of the day, if fact fairly often we are out all day and it never gets used. Not very efficient but that's the downside of an indirect system.

Incidentally the Gas engineer is happy to supply a like for like replacement with the same footprint as the old one and minimum pipe disruption, I think he said that would be circa £1600 with a 5 year guarantee. He is not pushing for a sale but mentioned the Vaillant as a worthwhile option.

Regards,

Benny.

Benny5 · 6 Jun 2015

Boilerman2 said:
I've just Quoted someone to replace a PCB on an ecotec because that is what they have been "told" is the fault I have quoted on the basis that the work will be paid for on completion regardless of the outcome because we have not been asked to carry out a diagnosis - so far no response!

Just out of interest, in case I should go down the Vaillant route, how prone are combi's to failure, especially PCB's? I have noticed this on a number of threads where PCB's need replacing. Does the entire PCB need replacing or is it a component failure; obviously lees expensive.

Regards,

Benny.

Tibbot · 6 Jun 2015

If you wanted to prepare to cover the worst, budget for this.
Your boiler won't last 26 years, you may be on your 3rd combi by then.
Expensive interventions, whether faults or expensive service items will be nearer every 26 months not years.

These boilers are not fit for existing systems (or systems not fit for them) no matter how much you clean them. IMO they should be separated from the radiators by some form of external heat exchanger.

I wouldn't bother unless at the very least you put in a new system otherwise prepare for regular expense.

Gas may be one of the cheapest fuels but the equipment has become as throw-away as cheap white goods.

Dan Robinson · 6 Jun 2015

An Intergas Combi is as bullet proof as you can get.

Remarkably simple. Just make sure you have scale prevention implemented.

Job can be split too - fit a combi to run with your cylinder. When the cylinder goes, convert to a combi set up then.

Benny5 · 6 Jun 2015

Dan_Robinson said:
An Intergas Combi is as bullet proof as you can get.

Remarkably simple. Just make sure you have scale prevention implemented.

Job can be split too - fit a combi to run with your cylinder. When the cylinder goes, convert to a combi set up then.

That's a brand I hadn't heard before. How does it compare with the Vaillant price-wise.

Benny.

Benny5 · 6 Jun 2015

Having now been through the many, much appreciated, contributions to my enquiry I am in brain overload mode.

Part of me thinks I should bite the bullet and go for a new combi, type to be decided.

Then I look at my current system and while the boiler is 26 year the rest of the pipework, most of the radiators/radiator valves are even older, they were old when I moved in 30 years ago. So I'm concerned that no matter how well the system is flushed some crud is likely to remain. Then there is also the concern that these old solder joints may not hold up to the new pressure.

So as things stand at the moment I'm looking at a repair or 'like for like' replacement.

Regards,

Benny.

Agile · 6 Jun 2015

Good! You are starting to see some sense!

You can repair your old boiler and the chances it will run for another few years.

Or you can replace it with a heat only boiler for about £1500.

You could use an Intergas heat only which can run on an UNPRESSURISED system!

It is also pretty impervious to dirt in the system as its heat exchanger is similar to 22 mm tubing.

It will give you a gas saving of about £125 a year too.

And keep your rapid hot water flow!

No brainer really!

Tony

Benny5 · 6 Jun 2015

Agile said:
Good! You are starting to see some sense!
Tony

A problem shared is a problem halved or something like that.

Agile said:
You can repair your old boiler and the chances it will run for another few years.

Or you can replace it with a heat only boiler for about £1500.

You could use an Intergas heat only which can run on an UNPRESSURISED system!

It is also pretty impervious to dirt in the system as its heat exchanger is similar to 22 mm tubing.

It will give you a gas saving of about £125 a year too.

And keep your rapid hot water flow!

No brainer really!

Tony

I shall go over the latter options with my Gas engineer on Monday. As I mentioned on an earlier post, I haven't previously heard of an Intergas units so I shall do some digging.

Once again many thanks for your input.

Regards,

Benny.

Benny5 · 10 Jun 2015

Hi, I’m back and after a few days of though and investigation I find myself now moving towards a new combi bailer. My OH has decided we need a new bathroom suit very soon, well in the next year and her new bath preference is for one wider than the current one. So I have removed the bath side panel to trace all the existing pipe work, also, traced the nearest gas supply point to the airing cupboard where the new boiler would be located. I have been in the loft to inspect the tanks there.

This is what I found that has caused me to change my direction.
1)The DHW feeder tank looks ancient; it’s made of copper section with welded edges and a wooden cover.
2)The CH header appears to be rubber compound, slightly out of shape and has a polystyrene cover. Both have lots of lagging.
3)The pipe-work from the existing boiler runs parallel to the bath and would have be alter to accommodate the proposed new bath. This would be complicated by the pipe work arrangement within the airing cupboard. (See image). View media item 95455
4) The system pump is very old and must have a limited life.

So considering the cost of re-routing existing pipe-work coupled with any possible failure of any of the above then that expense coupled with my existing boiler repair could be considerable.

For the additional cost now I am removing a lot of vulnerabilities from my existing system. I realise my DHW flow will suffer somewhat but we are prepared for that.

The proposed boiler is a Vaillant eco TEC Plus 824 fitted with a MagaClean filter.
Regards

Benny.

Agile · 10 Jun 2015

That boiler will give about 8 litres per minute.

Measure your flow and see how it compares.

Then think that a larger bath will need a larger volume of water!

Then think again.

I usually charge from about £2200 to fit a 24 kw reasonable boiler converted from a heat only boiler.

The gas supply pipe will probably need upgrading.

Tony

Benny5 · 10 Jun 2015

Agile said:
I usually charge from about £2200 to fit a 24 kw reasonable boiler converted from a heat only boiler.

The gas supply pipe will probably need upgrading.

Tony

My price of £2500 is based on the Vaillant 824 with the Magnaclean filter, system flush and connection to the nearest (3m) 22mm gas supply.

Is that excessive??

Benny.

Dan Robinson · 10 Jun 2015

Seems VERY reasonable to me as long as the gas supply is adequate.

22mm might not be enough.

Agile · 10 Jun 2015

It cannot be excessive because its about the same as what I charge!

Tony

Benny5 · 10 Jun 2015

Agile said:
It cannot be excessive because its about the same as what I charge!

Tony

Incidentally would there be any advantage in moving to the 831 version to improve the DHW performance.

From the IDHEE site I have calculated my property requires just under 12kW to meet my heating requirements, I have also established that my current radiator set up should produce 14.7kW output. So its just on DHW that there may be an issue.

Benny.

Dan Robinson · 10 Jun 2015

You'll run the risk of needing a much bigger gas pipe.

Personally I wouldn't bother going above 28kW on a combi.

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Any Views on Vaillant ecoTEC Plus combination boiler

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