Translating squiggles

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I have asked before, but :

So which dialect did you learn? And as you have read the Qur'an as well, do you speak classical Arabic?

may I ask why you spell Qur'an as you do when it is translated from (according to Google) "القرآن الكريم"?

So, when you hear "القرآن الكريم" do you think "Ah, that is obviously "Qur'an"? That is understandably English" - even though "Qu" without a following vowel does not make sense.
Surely "Koran" would do and be more accurate.
 
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I don't remember you asking before. My apologies if I missed it.

Why not use the original form or name as close as possible? For example, I use Kampuchea for Cambodia, Khmer for Cambodian culture/language, etc.
Whenever possible I like to use the indigenous pronunciation or spelling for most non-English places, people, cultures, etc.
Obviously I don't use the Arabic or Khmer script, a) 'cos I can't be bothered to use character map to find the characters, and b) I'd often have to check on the exact spelling of some terms.

Koran is the western term for Qur'an, isn't it?

Similarly, I don't listen to Dvorak, I listen to Di-vor-shak.
 
I haven't asked you before but I have asked on the forum.

My point is that :

Koran is the western term for Qur'an, isn't it?
Similarly, I don't listen to Dvorak, I listen to Di-vor-shak.
Why are you not using the western term, then?

Dvorak may write his name like that and pronounce it in a way the English would not.
That is how foreign languages are.

However, that is not the same as translating "القرآن الكريم" by using a form not logical in English.
How does القرآن الكريم become Qur'an if you hear Koran?

We do not translate the Russian "кремль" and spell it "Qur'emlin"?
 
Koran is the western term for Qur'an, isn't it?
Similarly, I don't listen to Dvorak, I listen to Di-vor-shak.
Why are you not using the western term, then?
As I said, I try to use the indigenous form, if I'm aware of it. Qur'an or Quran appears to be the most acceptable form, unless you revert to the western version Koran. In Arabic it does have more of a "Qu" sound to it than a "K" sound, as in cook, or cool.

Dvorak may write his name like that and pronounce it in a way the English would not.
That is how foreign languages are.
Strictly speaking, there's accents over the "R" and the "A" but I can't be bothered to look them up on character map. And I'm sure Dvorak doesn't mind, as long as I use the correct form of pronunciation in speech.

However, that is not the same as translating "القرآن الكريم" by using a form not logical in English.
How does القرآن الكريم become Qur'an if you hear Koran?
It's, for me, a matter of respect to use the indigenous name or pronunciation, or as close as we can get to it.

We do not translate the Russian "кремль" and spell it "Qur'emlin"?
Unless the Russians used that form in eastern - western communication, then I would use it also.
To use кремль would necessitate the use of character map, and, as I've just said, it's laborious and no-one would know what I meant. Also the indigenous pronunciation is more of a "K" sound than a "Q" sound.
It's not laborious to use Qur'an. It's also an acceptable and recognised form of لقرآن الكريم

I don't say Paris, I say Pari'.
I don't say Milan, I say Milano.

You say either ( ˈī-thər ), I say either (ˈē-thər).
 
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I think that it would be fair to say that Quran is the most appropriate English term, I fail to see why the apostrophe needs to be there to suggest that the word has been shortened . Koran would seem to be an Americanism which I usually dislike but since I have little regard for that book or its followers, I have no interest in being accurate on this occasion. It seems that many texts from Arabic to English are quite prone to variances.. My Iraqi friend best described all Arabic dialects as "A very flowery language" open to many interpretations.
 
I think that it would be fair to say that Quran is the most appropriate English term, I fail to see why the apostrophe needs to be there to suggest that the word has been shortened . Koran would seem to be an Americanism which I usually dislike but since I have little regard for that book or its followers, I have no interest in being accurate on this occasion. It seems that many texts from Arabic to English are quite prone to variances.. My Iraqi friend best described all Arabic dialects as "A very flowery language" open to many interpretations.

You speak Arabic? The apostrophe represents a glottal stop, quite common in Arabic. Not a shortening, as you should know.
 
I think that it would be fair to say that Quran is the most appropriate English term, I fail to see why the apostrophe needs to be there to suggest that the word has been shortened . Koran would seem to be an Americanism which I usually dislike but since I have little regard for that book or its followers, I have no interest in being accurate on this occasion. It seems that many texts from Arabic to English are quite prone to variances.. My Iraqi friend best described all Arabic dialects as "A very flowery language" open to many interpretations.

You speak Arabic? The apostrophe represents a glottal stop, quite common in Arabic. Not a shortening, as you should know.
Yes I do speak Arabic but qur'an is the English translation so the stops are not appropriate any more than an umlaut is not appropriate in the name Munich
 
I think that it would be fair to say that Quran is the most appropriate English term, I fail to see why the apostrophe needs to be there to suggest that the word has been shortened . Koran would seem to be an Americanism which I usually dislike but since I have little regard for that book or its followers, I have no interest in being accurate on this occasion. It seems that many texts from Arabic to English are quite prone to variances.. My Iraqi friend best described all Arabic dialects as "A very flowery language" open to many interpretations.

You speak Arabic? The apostrophe represents a glottal stop, quite common in Arabic. Not a shortening, as you should know.
Yes I do speak Arabic but qur'an is the English translation so the stops are not appropriate any more than an umlaut is not appropriate in the name Munich

Really? Bejing was Peking, Mumbai was Bombay. And so on. I'm surprised you did not realise what the apostrophe represented since you claim to speak Arabic..
 
I think that it would be fair to say that Quran is the most appropriate English term, I fail to see why the apostrophe needs to be there to suggest that the word has been shortened . Koran would seem to be an Americanism which I usually dislike but since I have little regard for that book or its followers, I have no interest in being accurate on this occasion. It seems that many texts from Arabic to English are quite prone to variances.. My Iraqi friend best described all Arabic dialects as "A very flowery language" open to many interpretations.

You speak Arabic? The apostrophe represents a glottal stop, quite common in Arabic. Not a shortening, as you should know.
Yes I do speak Arabic but qur'an is the English translation so the stops are not appropriate any more than an umlaut is not appropriate in the name Munich

Really? Bejing was Peking, Mumbai was Bombay. And so on. I'm surprised you did not realise what the apostrophe represented since you claim to speak Arabic..
But in English, and apostrophe is an apostrophe. Quran is the English translation, you cannot start using foreign punctuation on a word that is translated into English. Bejing, Peking, Mumbai, Bombay? I'm sure that it is clear in your mind but you aren't making yourself very clear and your attitude seems to be getting a little aggressive again... Perhaps a beer and a bacon sandwich would help you to think more clearly
 
It's, for me, a matter of respect to use the indigenous name or pronunciation, or as close as we can get to it.
...but the indigenous people do not use that alphabet so why is it spelt in such a way?

In Arabic it does have more of a "Qu" sound to it than a "K" sound, as in cook, or cool.
Not sure if that is so - it may - but in English "Qu" requires a vowel after it.

"Quor an" then.



Same with Qatar.
 
It's, for me, a matter of respect to use the indigenous name or pronunciation, or as close as we can get to it.
...but the indigenous people do not use that alphabet so why is it spelt in such a way?

In Arabic it does have more of a "Qu" sound to it than a "K" sound, as in cook, or cool.
Not sure if that is so - it may - but in English "Qu" requires a vowel after it.

"Quor an" then.



Same with Qatar.
I'm sure that more learned, bi-lingual or multi-lingual people than me decided that that was the best way to spell it.
Who am I to argue?

Apart from that, F&I seems to want to exploit any and every opportunity to rant on with his favorite prejudice. Should we continue with this discussion in order to allow his exploitation and prejudicial comments?
 
Apart from that, F&I seems to want to exploit any and every opportunity to rant on with his favorite prejudice. Should we continue with this discussion in order to allow his exploitation and prejudicial comments?

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject, It would seem that you are a fanatic. You find offence everywhere. It seems that your pal is upset that he managed to get two of his threads locked due to his fanaticism.
 
It's, for me, a matter of respect to use the indigenous name or pronunciation, or as close as we can get to it.
...but the indigenous people do not use that alphabet so why is it spelt in such a way?
Not sure if that is so - it may - but in English "Qu" requires a vowel after it.
"Quor an" then.
Perhaps the learned people tried to imitate the sound of لقرآن الكريم by using Latin characters. Just like dictionaries use Latin characters to indicate pronunciation, as in: "You say either ( ˈī-thər ), I say either (ˈē-thər)."
So the use of characters do not follow the normal rules of grammar. Thus the apostrophe is not used in the normal abbreviation mode that we understand, as in: "don't, shan't, can't etc." But it's used to indicate a glottal stop as indicated by WWT, and our Arabic speaking friend would have known that.
 
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