Translating squiggles

WalksWithTurkeys · 24 Jan 2016

Fire and Ice said:
WalksWithTurkeys said:

Fire and Ice said:

WalksWithTurkeys said:

Fire and Ice said:

I think that it would be fair to say that Quran is the most appropriate English term, I fail to see why the apostrophe needs to be there to suggest that the word has been shortened . Koran would seem to be an Americanism which I usually dislike but since I have little regard for that book or its followers, I have no interest in being accurate on this occasion. It seems that many texts from Arabic to English are quite prone to variances.. My Iraqi friend best described all Arabic dialects as "A very flowery language" open to many interpretations.

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You speak Arabic? The apostrophe represents a glottal stop, quite common in Arabic. Not a shortening, as you should know.

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Yes I do speak Arabic but qur'an is the English translation so the stops are not appropriate any more than an umlaut is not appropriate in the name Munich

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Really? Bejing was Peking, Mumbai was Bombay. And so on. I'm surprised you did not realise what the apostrophe represented since you claim to speak Arabic..

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But in English, and apostrophe is an apostrophe. Quran is the English translation, you cannot start using foreign punctuation on a word that is translated into English. Bejing, Peking, Mumbai, Bombay? I'm sure that it is clear in your mind but you aren't making yourself very clear and your attitude seems to be getting a little aggressive again... Perhaps a beer and a bacon sandwich would help you to think more clearly

Aggressive? My you are a sensitive soul.

Actually an apostrophe may represent a glottal stop in English. And your reference to beer and bacon is bizarre and the only reasonable interpretation is that it is part of an anti-Muslim obsession. I love beer, but not bacon, since I do not eat meat. And it is too early for beer. I only drink in the evening, and only on Friday and Saturday, although some years back our company used to go to the pub on Friday lunchtime, for a meal and pint, that was nice that was.

Of course you can explain your odd comment about beer and a bacon sandwich if you wish.

WalksWithTurkeys · 24 Jan 2016

JohnD said:
Fire is an obsessive.

Surely not? An obsessive, here, on DIY Not, who would have thought it.

Himaginn · 24 Jan 2016

Fire and Ice said:
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject, It would seem that you are a fanatic. You find offence everywhere.

A fanatic, or fundamentalist is someone who exploits any and every opportunity to spout off his demented obsession, as in:

Fire and Ice said:
Perhaps a beer and a bacon sandwich would help you to think more clearly

Why didn't you suggest a cola and a cheese sandwich? Naah, that wouldn't exploit the opportunity to infer something derogatory.

You remind me of a poor imitation of Nigel Farage. If he was asked a question, say about economic policy, he'd reply with something like, "Economic Policy is determined by immigration. So we have to stop immigration first. We must send them all home."

You're the same. You can't discuss anything without making derogatory comments about Arabs. (Now your islamophobia has been curtailed.)
That's called racism, stark naked racism.

Nigel Farage is in the same bracket as Trump, exploiting the politics of paranoia.

Himaginn · 24 Jan 2016

WalksWithTurkeys said:
I love beer,

I'm OK with beer, but I have more of a spirit guidance.
My spirit guide's name is Connemara.
But occasionally I'm guided by another spirit called Highland Park, and other times by Old Pulteney. Sometimes Glenlivet might guide me.
I'm not unwilling to allow other spirits to make occasional appearances.

fender · 24 Jan 2016

I think you're getting paranoid Himmy.
Perhaps he suggested a beer and a bacon sarny as it's much more tasty than a boring cola and a cheese sarny?

You're very irritable today.

Himaginn · 24 Jan 2016

fender said:
I think you're getting paranoid Himmy.
Perhaps he suggested a beer and a bacon sarny as it's much more tasty than a boring cola and a cheese sarny?

You're very irritable today.

I'm always irritable with fanatical racists.
When I encounter the abbreviation IRS, I initially think of Irritable Racists Syndrome.

EFLImpudence · 24 Jan 2016

Himaginn said:
Perhaps the learned people tried to imitate the sound of لقرآن الكريم by using Latin characters. Just like dictionaries use Latin characters to indicate pronunciation, as in: "You say either ( ˈī-thər ), I say either (ˈē-thər)."

That's a fair point but we don't use those characters when writing normal text.

So the use of characters do not follow the normal rules of grammar. Thus the apostrophe is not used in the normal abbreviation mode that we understand, as in: "don't, shan't, can't etc." But it's used to indicate a glottal stop as indicated by WWT, and our Arabic speaking friend would have known that.

Surely our Arabic friend would not have been able to read the English.

It's as if Martians arrive and start talking and someone translates the sound using the phonetic symbols - kɔːˈrɑːn - and then for normal English text writes something which is equally alien.

I think you are being snobbish by using the 'Q' version; there is nothing wrong with 'Koran'

Anyway, I can't resist the temptation.
Would people like to copy the following for future reference?

Himaginn said:
Who am I to argue?

Himaginn · 24 Jan 2016

EFLImpudence said:
Himaginn said:

Perhaps the learned people tried to imitate the sound of لقرآن الكريم by using Latin characters. Just like dictionaries use Latin characters to indicate pronunciation, as in: "You say either ( ˈī-thər ), I say either (ˈē-thər)."

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That's a fair point but we don't use those characters when writing normal text.

So the use of characters do not follow the normal rules of grammar. Thus the apostrophe is not used in the normal abbreviation mode that we understand, as in: "don't, shan't, can't etc." But it's used to indicate a glottal stop as indicated by WWT, and our Arabic speaking friend would have known that.

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Surely our Arabic friend would not have been able to read the English.

It's as if Martians arrive and start talking and someone translates the sound using the phonetic symbols - kɔːˈrɑːn - and then for normal English text writes something which is equally alien.

I think you are being snobbish by using the 'Q' version; there is nothing wrong with 'Koran'

Maybe Muslims prefer the "Q" version, I don't know. But if so, and most Muslims and Islam sites, etc, tend to use it, so I respect that and use the "Q" version.

Who am I to argue?

Surely the most important thing is that we understand each other (although I'll never understand you!)

Anyway, I think you're just showing off with your command of the character map.

EFLImpudence · 24 Jan 2016

Do you remember when Angela Rippon used to read the News?

She would read it, of course, in perfect English but when she came to a foreign name would pronounce it in the relevant accent.

Using the 'Q' spelling reminds me of that. It just seems strange.

Himaginn · 24 Jan 2016

Not only Angela Rippon, but most national news readers, I thought.
I often admired their ability to pronounce some (to us) obscurely spelt names or pronunciation.
I suspect they might have had some pre-screening coaching in correct pronunciation.

Perhaps I am a snob and it's that kind of ability that I aspire to.

Fire and Ice · 24 Jan 2016

Himaginn said:
Perhaps I am a snob and it's that kind of ability that I aspire to.

Indeed, the satnav in my car does that too when it comes to foreign town names..

Fire and Ice · 24 Jan 2016

WalksWithTurkeys said:
Aggressive? My you are a sensitive soul.

Actually an apostrophe may represent a glottal stop in English.

Of course you can explain your odd comment about beer and a bacon sandwich if you wish.

Sensitive? No, but I don't tolerate aggression..

I'll take your word about the glottal stop, any examples?... Just to help me understand.

What is wrong with a beer and a bacon sandwich? Lots of guys here would love to relax with a beer and a bacon sandwich. Are you suggesting that beer and bacon are racist terms since you are now calling me racist for no good reason..

Himaginn · 24 Jan 2016

Fire and Ice said:
What is wrong with a beer and a bacon sandwich? Lots of guys here would love to relax with a beer and a bacon sandwich. Are you suggesting that beer and bacon are racist terms since you are now calling me racist for no good reason..

One can understand why you were deported from Saudi Arabia.

Fire and Ice · 24 Jan 2016

Himaginn said:
Fire and Ice said:

What is wrong with a beer and a bacon sandwich? Lots of guys here would love to relax with a beer and a bacon sandwich. Are you suggesting that beer and bacon are racist terms since you are now calling me racist for no good reason..

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One can understand why you were deported from Saudi Arabia.

In those days everyone was deported when they came to the end of their contract. What are you trying to say?

Himaginn · 27 Jan 2016

Fire and Ice said:
Himaginn said:

Fire and Ice said:

What is wrong with a beer and a bacon sandwich? Lots of guys here would love to relax with a beer and a bacon sandwich. Are you suggesting that beer and bacon are racist terms since you are now calling me racist for no good reason..

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One can understand why you were deported from Saudi Arabia.

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In those days everyone was deported when they came to the end of their contract. What are you trying to say?

The two people that I know who have chosen to work in UAE or Saudi Arabia have had the offer of their contracts renewed.
Obviously you did not receive that offer.
So again, your response is inaccurate, not everyone, who's contract is completed, is deported. Only those who were not offered a renewed contract.

Translating squiggles

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