Can cable share the same notch as copper central heating pipes?

tombodge said:

Im unsure how ive assured you that when i dont even know what Ca s are.

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When I questioned your competence to be doing this work, you did assure me of that because you said:

tombodge said:

Ive learn't everything ive needed to learn so far...

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Well - your "so far" encompassed designing the circuits, which means that you did need to know about the various de-rating factors which have to be applied when calculating cable sizes. Ca is one of those - it's the one for ambient temperature.

So clearly you were wrong when you said you had learned everything you needed to learn so far. I appreciate that it was simply ignorance that led you to make that false claim, not that you were lying, but that ignorance simply proves my point - you cannot learn what you actually need to know by only asking about the things you happen realise you don't know.

tombodge said:

Regarding the "design" work I had a sparky from site come round and tell me what i needed. He rewires/ wires up hoispitals and schools and big sites with a team of sparkys working for him. So im pritty sure his good enough to tell me what I need in my small 2 bed. I just told him what i want and where. 4 spots in the bathroom. 5 sockets in this room. Gas boiler. Ect ect and then wrote down everything he told me.

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And is he going to write his signature on an Electrical Installation Certificate to certify that he did the design?

PTS2 said:

If you're going to buy a book then get the On Site Guide.

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Taylortwocities said:

No - it has not got all you need to know. It is only a handy guide for some very basic stuff, and gives references to BS7671 - which is where the real information can be found.

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In the meantime, you might like to read through the following online guide (based on the 16th edition Wiring Regs.):

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/Contents.htm

PBC_1966 said:

In the meantime, you might like to read through the following online guide (based on the 16th edition Wiring Regs.):

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/Contents.htm

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tom - some of the specific figures and tables in that book are now out of date, but the underlying principles haven't changed, and you would do well to read it.

RF Lighting said:

Taylortwocities said:

and never like this

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Or this

View attachment 92449

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Is there be a method to make that safe? Asking out of pure curiousity

HawkEye244 said:

Is there be a method to make that safe? Asking out of pure curiousity

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Only, I would have thought, if it involved RSJs (or other beams) below those joists to support them.

Kind Regards, John

In regards to the joist you would have to sister it with ones the same size, glue clamp and bolt them. Then run that waste pipe above the floor and box it in.

Im reading that link and ordered the book yesterday



"And is he going to write his signature on an Electrical Installation Certificate to certify that he did the design?"

He didn't say anything about a "design" as such. He just told me what to use where when I told me what I wanted. Yes his looking over it, Testing it and linking it up so to speak and then signing me a Certificate.

I'm positive that if anything is wrong or not done to spec then it will be recifyed and corrected before he goes any further.

tombodge said:

"And is he going to write his signature on an Electrical Installation Certificate to certify that he did the design?"

He didn't say anything about a "design" as such.

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I being the person responsible for the design of the electrical installation (as indicated by my signature below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the design hereby CERTIFY that the said work for which I have been responsible is to the best of my knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671:2008, amended to 2015 except for the departures, if any, detailed as follows:

ban-all-sheds said:

tombodge said:

"And is he going to write his signature on an Electrical Installation Certificate to certify that he did the design?"

He didn't say anything about a "design" as such.

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I being the person responsible for the design of the electrical installation (as indicated by my signature below), particulars of which are described above, having exercised reasonable skill and care when carrying out the design hereby CERTIFY that the said work for which I have been responsible is to the best of my knowledge and belief in accordance with BS 7671:2008, amended to 2015 except for the departures, if any, detailed as follows:

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yes you've got it. I said. I'm rewiring my house do you mind coming and having a look at it with me and once ive finished can you sign it off and give me a certificate for building control. He said yes and quoted me for a day of this time.

Then while declaring all the work i'm doing to my house to building control I started going on about part P and asking what was required. When I mentioned that ive got a electrician that will check it over and test it for me he said. Well you don't need todo the part P do you and you also don't need to pay the Part P fee and you don't have to have us come out so many times (I can't remember how many times)

and that's its. Does this upset you?


If I was you id be more upset and worried about the fact that anyone with any skill level with no common sense at all that's never even used a screwdriver before is aloud to strip there car or van, down and attempt to rebuild the breaks, change the steering rack, Change track rod ends, suspension components, Change oil filters and even swap wheels over. Give it ago. Then drive it every day down the M6 at 80mph for 12 to 36 months without anyone ever checking it. Im sure you can imagine the carnage involved in a car or van having a wishbone fall off it at 80 mph. or the breaks failing. or dumping 5L of oil down the fast lane

I'm an quaifflyed HGV mechanic, Ive done 3 years as an auto electrician (completely different ball game) Ive been a coded welder, fabricator, Paint sprayer. I'm currently a specialist contract floor layer, I can plaster to a good standard. Ive plumbed my house (not gas) Ive hung doors, Ive knocked down load bearing walls and installed RSJs. I cannot spell to save my life


I WILL be rewiring my house. It WILL NOT go live until a qualified electrician has checked it over to make sure its safe.

I am sorry if this ****es you off for some reason

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tombodge said:

yes you've got it. I said. I'm rewiring my house do you mind coming and having a look at it with me and once ive finished can you sign it off and give me a certificate for building control. He said yes and quoted me for a day of this time

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So in other words, no, he will not be signing an EIC to say that he did the design or the construction. Unless he's a liar, and you and he are conspiring to commit criminal acts.

Then while declaring all the work i'm doing to my house to building control I started going on about part P and asking what was required. When I mentioned that ive got a electrician that will check it over and test it for me he said. Well you don't need todo the part P do you and you also don't need to pay the Part P fee and you don't have to have us come out so many times (I can't remember how many times)

and that's its. Does this upset you?

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What upsets me is that you really expect us to believe that a LABC told you that you did not have to bother to make reasonable provision in the design and installation of your electrical installation in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering it from fire or injury.

I WILL be rewiring my house. It WILL NOT go live until a qualified electrician has checked it over to make sure its safe.

I am sorry if this ****es you off for some reason

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What ****es me off is your absolute refusal to accept that you need proper competence to do that work. Competence which you could have acquired were you not the sort of &(£^$%£(@~ to come here with no intention whatsoever of listening to any advice which did not fit with what you had already decided to do.

ban-all-sheds said:

I being the person responsible for the design of the electrical installation

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is not the same as

I being the person who created the design of the electrical installation.

Being responsible can mean the person signing the declaration has inspected and approved an item, such as the design of an electrical installation, which they themself did not create.

Please do not try to use that argument when the installation is of the scale of a domestic dwelling, and there is no formal supervisory or managerial relationship between the electrician and the person doing the work.

It's been tried before and it has always been a stupid argument.

ban-all-sheds said:

Please do not try to use that argument when the installation is of the scale of a domestic dwelling, and there is no formal supervisory or managerial relationship between the electrician and the person doing the work.

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Please explain then who signs the declaration(s) for the electrical installations in the house on a newbuild estate of many identical houses where one person creates the design that is used in all the houses. Then several other people, possible electricians often just cable installers, have carried out the work in the houses. Does the person who signs the declaration(s) have to go and inspect the electrics at each house at all of the various stages ?

There doesn't have to be a formal relationship or contract between electrician and the person doing the work. If the electrician is prepared to sign the declaration knowing the consequences then he or she eill have developed trust in teh person doing the work.

Pleae stop trying to prevent DIY work or, if you must continue on that project please explain what happened to make you so adverse to DIY work.

ban-all-sheds said:

Please do not try to use that argument when the installation is of the scale of a domestic dwelling, and there is no formal supervisory or managerial relationship between the electrician and the person doing the work. It's been tried before and it has always been a stupid argument.

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It may be a stupid argument in your eyes, but that is definitely not a universal view.

I frequently "sign off" reports and other documents as the "person responsible for the content" and the wording of the declarations I sign is conceptually very similar to the 'design declaration' you're talking about. However, these documents usually contain vast amounts of detail content, of which (in many cases) little, if any, will have been my own work. I will have exercised a degree of oversight over the planning and execution of the work, reviewed the document and perhaps have checked some of the details etc. but am certainly "taking responsibility for" something which is far from being all my own work.

Kind Regards, John

ban-all-sheds said:

tombodge said:

yes you've got it. I said. I'm rewiring my house do you mind coming and having a look at it with me and once ive finished can you sign it off and give me a certificate for building control. He said yes and quoted me for a day of this time

Click to expand...

So in other words, no, he will not be signing an EIC to say that he did the design or the construction. Unless he's a liar, and you and he are conspiring to commit criminal acts.

Then while declaring all the work i'm doing to my house to building control I started going on about part P and asking what was required. When I mentioned that ive got a electrician that will check it over and test it for me he said. Well you don't need todo the part P do you and you also don't need to pay the Part P fee and you don't have to have us come out so many times (I can't remember how many times)

and that's its. Does this upset you?

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What upsets me is that you really expect us to believe that a LABC told you that you did not have to bother to make reasonable provision in the design and installation of your electrical installation in order to protect persons operating, maintaining or altering it from fire or injury.

I WILL be rewiring my house. It WILL NOT go live until a qualified electrician has checked it over to make sure its safe.

I am sorry if this ****es you off for some reason

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What ****es me off is your absolute refusal to accept that you need proper competence to do that work. Competence which you could have acquired were you not the sort of &(£^$%£(@~ to come here with no intention whatsoever of listening to any advice which did not fit with what you had already decided to do.

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I'm not lieing about anything ive said. This is what building control has told me. Had they told me otherwise I wouldn't be doing anything.

and if we are been fair ive listened to all the advise that has been given to me in all of this thread. Not only have I listened to it but ive acted on it by buying the book and following all other advice that's been given to me.

You have not offered any advice at all, Not even a little bit. And I don't even know who you are so im going to trust what building control have told me and what my electrician have told me.

What are you even doing on a DIY forum if you have such a problem with it?