Vaillant vSmart to replace VRT392

I still have my Vaillant VRT392 which despite it's poor UI, lack of easy access boost for DHW has been okay for the last few years.

SHMBO keeps talking about Hive/Nest and their ability to control via an App, as a technology lover myself I too was interested but as we would lose the modulating water temp for rads and differing temps for DHW via VR10/VR65 was holding out for Vaillant to catch up....

I've just seen they now have the new vSmart, which I'd like to investigate more! It appears to be a two part wireless controller / Thermostat so more like the VRXxxxF variants, can anyone answer the following or point me to more detailed info?

1) Is there a one part VSmart controller that I can directly replace with my VRT392 available or due to be launched?

2) Does this controller work with a VR65 / ecoTEC 418 and are there any d.x settings I should use/change?

3) Does this controller ramp up the temp/burner slowly or will it have the same issues as before with the first c 20 seconds at a higher rate?

4) How does it decide on internal temp vs Internet temp usage? Can these settings me modified / Tweaked manually or is it totally hidden in software?

5) Does the app need to be on the same wifi network to work or can you access remotely? (If remotely, what security is in place to prevent unauthorised access?)

6) Has anyone installed one yet / had one installed? If so, what are your thoughts so far on ease of use / setup?

7) I see the gateway box has Bluetooth and WLAN and the thermostat connects via 868mhz. What is Bluetooth used for, do you need to pair a device to the gateway to use the app? Can you control via WLAN alone?

8) After just reading the installation instructions (which are as poor as ever!) it's not clear if the "gateway" box needs a separate power supply or is powered from eBus? If it's separate, is this a transformer built into the plug or could it be wired directly to 230v (in addition to eBus if needed)

Links found: http://www.vaillant.co.uk/downloads/vsmart-installation-guide-578594.pdf (The operating instructions incorrectly links to the same PDF)

http://www.plumbcare.com/uploads/plumbcarecom/files/vSMART_Sales_Presenter.pdf

Because of the constant complaints from customers since 2005 re their eBUS controls, we no longer specify them.

I think you are mistaken re the VRT392, it doesn't modulate the boiler temperature for radiators. For this you would need a Vaillant VRC product, or the vSmart. The VRT392 is a marvel at making something very simple, appear extraordinarily complicated.

However, Evohome is much much easier to use, and it isn't made by Vaillant.

You would need to scrap the VR65, but this was a bodge for the UK market anyway. Your 4 series was never sold in Germany (its a tarted up Glow-worm) and since Vaillant UK said they couldn't sell a four pipe German ecoTEC, the VR65 wiring box was designed so that thick UK installers could work out the wiring and use the external valves they were comfortable with. I suspect some of the moans on this forum regarding the way 4 series behaves regarding burner firing rates also boil down to its provenance.

So my advice would be to buy a Honeywell Evohome, and a HW pack. You can then easily upgrade to a 12 zone system later.

In terms of fully zoned, you will see that neither Nest nor Hive have a fully scoped solution in this regard. You could buy 10 Nests for instance, but none would talk to each other and you would need to replumb the house. Honeywell have been making fully working and featured zone systems since 1998, so are currently 17 years ahead of the pack*.

*They already developed the window openers, anemometers, light meters, relay boxes for lighting etc. Hometronic was far ahead in this regard; after 12 years they decided there was insufficient customer demand and dropped these features, in 2010, when Evohome Mk1 was launched. Perhaps vSmart isn't so clever in 2015 after all.

simond said:

I think you are mistaken re the VRT392, it doesn't modulate the boiler temperature for radiators. For this you would need a Vaillant VRC product, or the vSmart.

Click to expand...

I'm not! I've had the control installed for 4-5 years now and understand in great depth how it works! (See here and here for some long technical threads on this)

simond said:

So my advice would be to buy a Honeywell Evohome, and a HW pack. You can then easily upgrade to a 12 zone system later.

Click to expand...

Whilst EvoHome may suit some very large homes, it doesn't appear to include the innovative intelligence features of the latest systems, the mobile element is an afterthought (and as such, seems to have some design flaws), it's all a bit over engineered and way too costly for most homes IMHO.

Almost four years ago I started this thread discussing Nest (way before it was available in the UK or purchased by Google). Whilst the Vaillant vSmart is a bit late to the party, sometimes that's not a bad thing. On paper, the vSmart seems to be a mix of the Nest/Hive and what I termed "Weather Compensation 2.0" in the above linked thread, I don't think it's "the future"* but it seems to meet the needs of "today" for tech savvy Vaillant owners. The question is, does it work in reality?!? (I can't see it in stock at any online suppliers so guess it's not yet widely available!?)

*The future for me would include some TRV zoning and "Just Work", I don't want to have to set the temps in each and every room, I want it to understand how my family and I live each day and adjust to me. I want to fully understand the system via an App, and even connect to my friendly Heating Engineer if I need help. I want it to link to my Smart Meter and heat my home on lower priced energy and provide me with more intelligence on usage/price/performance to give me the optimum setup. [Maybe in 2020 Vaillant will release something!? ]

UpgradeME
did you ever upgrade to vSmart, if so hows it going and was it worth it? Lastly did it work with the vr65?

@kaos24 no, I contacted Vaillant who was not able to answer my questions, so as there was so little info available I didn't want to be their Guineapig!

I've since read on here that there are some more controls coming from Vaillant. The vSmart seems to be a bit limited in some respects and is not a direct replacement for a wired VRT 392/430 so I think I'll wait and see what the next one brings!?

Does anyone know when the next controls will be released or if Vaillant have a typical release "time of year" to release new stuff?

Are / have you had the vSmart fitted? If so, what do you think to it?

I've a vSmart sys pack on its way.
I didn't think / didn't find anything to suggest vaillant where releasing additional controls. Back in Jan 2013 vaillant & engineers kept telling me a new wireless control would be released soon. I stopped pestering them and my HE, in 2014. vSmart was released 4 or 5 years after v470 series, I wouldn't expect a new flag ship controller mere months after vSmart. Have you a link to where you read re the new controllers, as its summer I could wait if something better was on its way.
I mainly want to set a cooler morning on temp than the evening temp. We don't like waking up to a too warm house first thing.

@kaos24 see bottom of this thread... //www.diynot.com/diy/threads/vsmart-and-migo.450451/

Two poster's mentioning an update coming, one of which I believe works for V.

Try the 700, that will have app soon and maybe better for you

@UpgradeME I see, I assumed @vulcancontinental was on about the vSmart as Bunnyman mentioned.
@Bunnyman what is the 700? Who makes it? Do you have a url? Does it modulate with my ecotec630?

Bunnyman said:

Try the 700, that will have app soon and maybe better for you

Click to expand...

Looks like there is already an app for iOS in the App Store! (Which looks better than the vSmart too). Will this work in the UK if purchased online or do we need to wait for a UK release?

Yep I've already got the app and taken a look.
The app is great but only allows a setback and daytime temp. Doesn't allow variable temps though like lower in am than pm. The vSmart app is similar except it's possible to create new profiles with different temps.
Is the vrc 700 even available to purchase outside of .nl? I.e is vaillant even still selling it?

No you will need a 900 box, it's out now but not readily available yet

It's the new Vaillant out the box one fits all solution, it's available now, it will work with app if you get the 900 box, however give it a few months everything is coming together shortly,
http://www.vaillant.co.uk/homeowners/products/vrc-700-22272.en_gb.html

@Bunnyman the vrc700/900 looks just like the 470. Is the only difference wifi remote capability?