Neighbor likes to remove shared chimney stack - Any problems 4 me?

eastender3 · 30 Jul 2016

Hello Folks,

My neighbor mentioned to me that they want to remove our shared chimney stack, we live in terraced houses, for loft conversion. I do not use the chimney at all, and when we moved in a few years ago, we had the chimney breast removed in our living room. The houses are not listed.

How do I ensure that the removal does not have any damages or negative impact to my property?

Do they need any building reg or planning?

gingerbiscuit · 30 Jul 2016

They would probably have in place planning for a loft conversion, my concern would be the finished look of the property and how this might affect things if and when you decide to sell in the future. At the moment having only removed the chimney breast in the living room you have an easy option to reinstate the chimney at a later date if required. I would think carefully before you allow progress and anyway they can't proceed without your permission regardless of what planning they have.

eastender3 · 30 Jul 2016

gingerbiscuit said:
They would probably have in place planning for a loft conversion, my concern would be the finished look of the property and how this might affect things if and when you decide to sell in the future. At the moment having only removed the chimney breast in the living room you have an easy option to reinstate the chimney at a later date if required. I would think carefully before you allow progress and anyway they can't proceed without your permission regardless of what planning they have.

Thanks for your reply,
I was thinking also that my shared walls might have cracks, so have to take pictures before they start work and I read condensation might be an issue if they don't do it properly. They just asked me verbally for my consent.

If I don't agree, then they could just make their loft conversion without removing the chimney stack, but would be a smaller loft.

Hugh Jaleak · 30 Jul 2016

I would be looking at a Party Wall Agreement before agreeing to the Neighbours doing anything. Get something in place to protect your property and interests in case it all goes horribly wrong. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/party-wall-etc-act-1996-guidance

vinn · 31 Jul 2016

Planning is not required, subject to certain limits its a permitted development.
Blg Regs are needed and require BCO's involvement.

Do you still have your c/breasts on the first floor and in the loft? Do you have more than one flue running up to your side of the stack?

Dont agree - traditional house appearances demand higher house sale prices. But do it nicely, why not let your wife or girlfriend deal with any refusal - they do these things much better than men.

eastender3 · 31 Jul 2016

vinn said:
Planning is not required, subject to certain limits its a permitted development.
Blg Regs are needed and require BCO's involvement.

Do you still have your c/breasts on the first floor and in the loft? Do you have more than one flue running up to your side of the stack?

Dont agree - traditional house appearances demand higher house sale prices. But do it nicely, why not let your wife or girlfriend deal with any refusal - they do these things much better than men.

I don't have a chimney breast on ground floor, I removed them when I moved in to refurbish the house, the previous owner had already removed chimney breast on first floor.

I looked around my street yesterday where people had loft conversion done, and most of them did not touch their chimney stack. I will say no, not only the job would have to be done properly by good builders, as I think it'll be more complex, they would use cheap builders to do it, and make a mess. Also I read draft and wall damage would occur. Not to mention, as you pointed out, the appearance of the houses and its impact on value. They don't need to remove the stack, as most people who do loft conversions, leave the chimney alone.

I am just wondering now. I have no chimney breast left, the prev owner used gallows bracket to support the stack, when he removed 1st floor fireplace and put the gallows in, I read on the survey report. I later removed the ground floor chimney breast. I'm not sure if the neighbor had removed theirs and how their chimney stack is supported?

eastender3 · 1 Sep 2016

Hello Folks,

New developments. They hired a builder and asked me to join them for a discussion in their house. He bought some drawings. Basically they want to remove their half of the chimney stack, to make the stairs and the rooms bigger for loft conversion and wanted to ask me if I would agree to remove the whole shared chimney stack.

Do they need my permission to remove even their half of the chimney? He sounded like they don't need my permission.

The builder told me after removing the half, he would lower the size of the remaining stack for long term stability? He did mention about party wall agreement.

Diver Fred · 1 Sep 2016

Well, I'd never heard of 'Gallows Brackets' until tonight; I had a quick Google around and now to be quite honest I think my recommendation has to be if they wish to remove the stack then let them. Just get it in writing who is paying, the standard of the work expected (the matching finish) and the warrantee period. That may (will?) cost a few quid to a solicitor but in the long run with a gallows bracket holding the stack and ANOther working on it that has to be safer than having the stack collapse at a later date.
I'd also consult your building insurance company for their advice.

This link should give you food for thought...
http://www.epsom-ewell.gov.uk/NR/rd...uirementsforchimneystackremovalandsupport.pdf

catlad · 1 Sep 2016

I would say from experience don't leave a redundant pile of bricks on your roof
for no practical reason.

chappers · 2 Sep 2016

My worry would be how stable your side of the stack would be if they removed their half. the two stacks would have been built as one, and your stack left remaining would probably have to be re-built to retain it's structural integrity. as you question, your stack is supported by a gallows bracket and if they chose to do the same and keep the stack supported by a gallows bracket then the remaining wall might not be sufficient to take two stacks held on the remaining wall(this is why some local authorities aren't happy with gallows rackets as a means of support.
I would point out to them the visual impact of removing half the stack and also point out to them that if they intend to remove the breast that your stack is supported by a gallows bracket.
I would personally ask them not to and let them know that they should invoke the PWA and that if they don't that they will be responsible for any damage caused by their works.
My instinct would be to politely refuse

londoner1 · 2 Sep 2016

gingerbiscuit said:
They would probably have in place planning for a loft conversion, my concern would be the finished look of the property and how this might affect things if and when you decide to sell in the future. At the moment having only removed the chimney breast in the living room you have an easy option to reinstate the chimney at a later date if required. I would think carefully before you allow progress and anyway they can't proceed without your permission regardless of what planning they have.

Had my conversion done 3 months ago, my chimney was removed without consultating next door, just mentioned to him i'm removing it, had no problems, no PWA either, Planning was not involved and BCO was not bothered.

vinn · 2 Sep 2016

Chimney stacks are far more than a "redundant pile of bricks" - for instance, many were removed after the clean air acts.
No one thought that 30 years later solid fuel burning would be back with a bang.
Plus the proliferation of modern gas appliances with SS liners up c/stacks.
Chimney breasts and stacks have since had to be re-built to satisfy demand.

Perhaps the poster doesn't know that back in the day thousands of slate roofs were stripped for no other reason than slate was considered old fashioned and needed maintenance - go figure?

Stacks add value to a property - have you heard of gentrification & retro, people paying for traditional features?
Houses with stacks were designed and built that way & messing with a feature that sits way up there is a very poor judgement - remember when plastic verges were all the rage?
Why not remove pitched roofs and go flat? Why not new-build with all flat roofs, its cheaper?

cjard · 4 Sep 2016

Remove the stack completely, chimney pots and all. Completely outdated **** that is unnecessary in the modern age and neither of you use it. If you honestly think it'll knock so much off the value of your house that youll miss the money, then you need a reality check. Tell them to pay for the removal of yours too, and they'll be doing you a favour, and saving you a chunk of money right now that may well be more than this magical supposed loss in value because you don't have a medieval hole in your house costing you a fortune in heating bills

vinn · 4 Sep 2016

How one could "Remove the stack completely" while leaving the "chimney pots" would present an odd image. Rather magical?

"Completely outdated ****" - why the emphasising euphemism for profanity when you have already used an unnecessary superlative to tell your reader that you claim the stack is outdated?
Sounds like you are disturbed by something?

Probably some million or so UK houses might predate the OP's stack - do you consider them to be "outdated" & "unnecessary"?
In my limited experience, people use the term: "If you honestly think" for exaggeration when they are confused or ignorant.
Why the: "honestly" - do you imagine that the OP would have reason to lie to you?

Do you deny that people dont pay for retro features - chimney stacks in particular? How foolish, as one glance at the expensive store of pots in a Reclaimer's yard would tell you.
Do you deny that stacks and c/breasts are no longer being (re)built in traditional houses?
Do you deny the sense of continued community that comes from seeing traditional housing in its traditional state?
Do you claim that sitting around the room's focal point of a fire of some kind in a chimney breast is less preferable than sitting in a square box with no sense of togetherness or centredness?

Please define this "costing a fortune in heating bills" - how do you know, are all c/stacks included?
Why "costing a fortune" - why use such an exaggerated phrase?

chappers · 5 Sep 2016

londoner1 said:
and BCO was not bothered.

Well he should have been if you removed half of a shared stack.

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Neighbor likes to remove shared chimney stack - Any problems 4 me?

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