Help needed

Hi,

I am sorry if this has been asked a lot of times but I am in a terrible rush as works have started this morning. This morning our electrician (complete rewire and new consumer units of 1930s house) told us that all sockets need to be 45cm above ground and light switches no higher than 120cm. He keeps saying that a complete rewire is treated as new and he therefore needs to install them higher/lower.

This has completely thrown us and we don't know where to turn as I don't know whether "new works" means new circuit or new building work. What can we do? Thank you very much

Part P

1.6
Regulation 4(3) states that when building work is complete, the building should be no more
unsatisfactory in terms of complying with the applicable parts of Schedule 1 to the Building
Regulations than before the building work was started. Therefore, when extending or altering an
electrical installation, only the new work must meet current standards. There is no obligation to
upgrade the existing installation unless either of the following applies.
a. The new work adversely affects the safety of the existing installation.
b. The state of the existing installation is such that the new work cannot be operated safely.

He is wrong. The socket and switch heights he is talking about only apply to new builds. NEW houses have to comply with Building Regulations Part M - disabled access. Existing houses do not, otherwise you would need extra wide doorways, ramps for wheelchairs and loads of other stuff.

You Can have them at the same height as before.

Yes seconded as Taylor two cities says, part m only applies to new dwellings so not extension or rewire. The only rule is you can't make things worse then they were before.

3rded, Just had an extension and all sockets went in to match the height of the existing sockets. Its surprising how many electricians think this though, as I had an extension a while back and had a similar discussion with the sparks.

If in doubt just phone your friendly building control dept. at the council

motorbiking said:

If in doubt just phone your friendly building control dept. at the council

Click to expand...

One potential problem with that is that some BCOs tend to have their own opinions and interpretations of the regs, which are sometimes just plain wrong - but (unless one is conducting a 'campaign') it is generally not too good an idea to try to 'over-rule' them, even when they're wrong!

My personal view is that if one is sure that what one proposes to do is reg-compliant (such that one would have a strong defence if ever challenged), then it is probably safer not to ask BC to 'confirm' that - just in case they don't!

Kind Regards, John

Plus I would say if it is your new house that you are building, you can have the sockets and switches wherever you want.

___________



Is there in fact anything in the actual Building Regulations which states these heights?

All Part M states in this regard is:



Or - is it another case of a guidance given in an Approved Document - M?

It does seem that in this trade all that is necessary for something to become 'compulsory' is for it to be written once in a guidance document and it shall forever become fact.

No further thought required.

EFLImpudence said:

Is there in fact anything in the actual Building Regulations which states these heights? .... All Part M states in this regard is: ......... Or - is it another case of a guidance given in an Approved Document - M? .... It does seem that in this trade all that is necessary for something to become 'compulsory' is for it to be written once in a guidance document and it shall forever become fact.

Click to expand...

All true. However, the problem (with Part M, Part P and probably other parts) is that the actual Building Regs are so vague (just talking about "reasonable steps") that most people will feel the need for some guidance as to what is likely to be regarded as "reasonable steps", and thus take that guidance as essentially the only indicator of how the law would be interpreted in terms of 'what is required'. If someone ignores the guidance and simply makes up their own mind as to what they feel constitutes "reasonable steps", they are far more likely to end up facing arguments/challenges than if they stick with the 'guidance'.

As we've often discussed, in terms of demonstrating compliance with part P, it is very much easier to demonstrate compliance with BS7671 than it is to do things which are not BS7671-compliant but to attempt to argue 'from first principles' that they have nevertheless complioed with Part P. As we've said, there are probably few people who have the knowledges/resources (or time/inclination) to attempt to produce such 'from first principles' arguments.

I may be wrong, but is not the 'Highway Code' another such example? If so, the law probably only requires that one drives 'with due care and attention' (without any detail requirements), but one would probably be on thin ice trying to argue that one had done that if one had contravened the 'guidance' of the Highway Code. However, as I said, I may be wrong about that.

Kind Regards, John

Thank you all very much! We are now drafting an email.We will argue that, if he doesn't agree, we will take the (nonexistent) risk in case that there is ever an inspection (we are not extending so no council etc involved).

FYI...today is the first day of a 10week total refurb....already fed up

Another vote to assure you your electrician is wrong.

Update-we will have sockets and light switches at a "normal" height

Do let us know if you have any other issues. We just love telling other people what to do!