Can I use ceiling rose in loft in lieu of junc box

Uncle phil · 1 Nov 2016

Hi,

this may be a daft question but cannot see why it cannot be done.

Need to dispose of ceiling rose for new light fitting

For ease and simplicity, why cant I:-

Identify and label wires in existing ceiling rose
Disconnect pendant
Disconnect ceiling rose
Climb into loft
Pull wires through
Reconnect wires to ceiling rose
Fix ceiling rose to joist
Connect a 2 core flex to ceiling rose and send down
Connect to new light fitting
Voila

securespark · 1 Nov 2016

Not often seen, but as long as the cables and rose are firmly secured, close to where the flex will drop through the ceiling, I can't see an issue.

But it needs to be 3 core flex.

And the rose needs to be accessible. If it is not, you need to replace it with an MF type.

footprints · 1 Nov 2016

I've done it a couple of times at home and still here to tell the tale, works fine.
Now lets wait and see if the experts hang me out to dry!!!

footprints · 1 Nov 2016

As said I did use 3 core to supply an earth to the fitting.

EFLImpudence · 1 Nov 2016

Uncle phil said:
Reconnect wires to ceiling rose
Fix ceiling rose to joist.

Are you saying you have drilled a hole in the joists for the cables - or
have left the lid off the rose after connecting?

Taylortwocities · 1 Nov 2016

When doing any fixed wiring the wiring, and the junction have to be (well) fixed.

So the rose needs to be screwed to a joist and the cables also clipped to a joist/background. Why? because the ceiling rose (and most of the round junction boxes) do not have any strain relief to stop the cables being wrenched out when you catch your foot in the trailing wires up in the loft.

But you have a big snag, if you screw the rose to a joist you do not now have a hole to put the cables through!.

There's two obvious ways to do this properly:

1. Use a proper JB, screw it to the joist and clip the cables properly
2. If you really must leave the cables trailing around the place, then you could use one of these that are made for the purpose

Uncle phil · 1 Nov 2016

EFLImpudence said:
Are you saying you have drilled a hole in the joists for the cables - or
have left the lid off the rose after connecting?

No holes drilled for cables

Ceiling rose screwed to side of joist. enough to make secure.

half the ceiling rose would be screwed against the joist and half sticking out.

or screw a baton between joists, hole in baton for wires

Replace lid on ceiling rose after connecting up as it would be if screwed to a ceiling

EFLImpudence · 1 Nov 2016

Taylortwocities said:

Uncle phil · 1 Nov 2016

There's two obvious ways to do this properly:

1. Use a proper JB, screw it to the joist and clip the cables properly
2. If you really must leave the cables trailing around the place, then you could use one of these that are made for the purpose

[/QUOTE]

What is a proper JB? 20A or 30A? from screwfix

securespark · 1 Nov 2016

The rose will stick up above the joist, making it a target for knocks, but mounting it on a couple of short lengths of 2x1 will mean you can get the cables behind and mount the rose so it does not stick up.

JohnW2 · 1 Nov 2016

securespark said:
The rose will stick up above the joist, making it a target for knocks...

I thought the OP said that he had fixed it to the side of a joist?

Kind Regards, John

securespark · 1 Nov 2016

Yeah. But if you want to pass cables through the rear, the rose will be higher than the top of the joist, unless you put a spacer behind.

JohnW2 · 1 Nov 2016

securespark said:
Yeah. But if you want to pass cables through the rear, the rose will be higher than the top of the joist, unless you put a spacer behind.

Fair enough. On reflection, I guess that's what the OP was saying he had done.

It certainly would seem simpler to just use a JB - which could, again (assuming it were just a 'standard' one), be screwed to the side of a joist (with none of it sticking up above the top of the joist).

Kind Regards, John

Uncle phil · 1 Nov 2016

Would i use a 20A or 30A JB?

And do the cables in the loop terminals all join 1 terminal in the jb?

Taylortwocities · 1 Nov 2016

Uncle phil said:
Would i use a 20A or 30A JB?

You will need a 4 terminal JB, so a 20A would be the norm.

Uncle phil said:
And do the cables in the loop terminals all join 1 terminal in the jb?

Of course! where else did you have in mind

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Can I use ceiling rose in loft in lieu of junc box

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