Putting bathroom heater on shower circuit?

propertydev83 · 21 Jan 2017

deadshort said:
Good morning,
Sorry, but i have to ask why you don't just change the single socket in the loft to a twin RCD socket ? It's perfectly acceptable and more cost effective. Fit a good quality plug and use 1.5mm flex to the heater (this is fitted as standard) as i have already said the heater is possibly class 2 (double insulated) and does not require an earth.
You'll have it fitted in 1hour

Kind regards,

DS

Yeah that's what I meant. I don't know why last night I said he'll probably put an RCD FCU upstream of the socket. I'm very sleep deprived.

If the heater's on a plug and there's still only that one socket on the spur then an upstream FCU is unnecessary. He is just going to change the plug socket to an RCD one, as you said.

Quickie. The longest part will probably be him trying to successfully feed the cable through the stud wall.

deadshort · 21 Jan 2017

Make a plum line from string and a nut, (not a monkey one), and use a wire coat hanger to 'hook' the end of the line at the heater..

………. easy!

Have fun,

DS

propertydev83 · 21 Jan 2017

I'll text him. I said to bend a wire coathanger into an L-shape, but that way is better.

JohnW2 · 21 Jan 2017

propertydev83 said:
No, the bathroom walls are studs so he will drill a hole behind the heater and feed it through and up to the loft.

Apologies for delay - I've been away from my computer for a while.

Fair enough. As DS has said, and as we've discussed before, if you're going to use a plug/socket, the simplest solution is to just change the existing loft double socket for an RCD one - which is fractionally simpler, and not much more expensive, than keeping the existing socket and putting an RCD FCU in front of it. Of course, both of those approaches invoke the 'inconvenience' which someone raised about having to go into the loft to reset the RCD (socket or FCU) should it ever trip (which it probably won't!).

I suppose irrationally, something doesn't feel quite right about having a plug/socket in what is essentially 'fixed wiring' - but there is no strong electrical (and no regulatory) reason for not doing it. I don't suppose it worries you, but the Screwfix website seems to imply that the manufacturer's instructions (which I can't find on-line) says that the WWDF20N should be 'hard-wired' ("Should be permanently connected to the mains by a qualified electrician").

Kind Regards, John

sparkwright · 21 Jan 2017

ban-all-sheds said:
So would the bathroom with a N-E fault upstream of that RCD.

Not sure I follow. The RCD for the heater would be outside the bathroom.

sparkwright · 21 Jan 2017

JohnW2 said:
Apologies for delay - I've been away from my computer for a while.

Fair enough. As DS has said, and as we've discussed before, if you're going to use a plug/socket, the simplest solution is to just change the existing loft double socket for an RCD one - which is fractionally simpler, and not much more expensive, than keeping the existing socket and putting an RCD FCU in front of it. Of course, both of those approaches invoke the 'inconvenience' which someone raised about having to go into the loft to reset the RCD (socket or FCU) should it ever trip (which it probably won't!).

I suppose irrationally, something doesn't feel quite right about having a plug/socket in what is essentially 'fixed wiring' - but there is no strong electrical (and no regulatory) reason for not doing it. I don't suppose it worries you, but the Screwfix website seems to imply that the manufacturer's instructions (which I can't find on-line) says that the WWDF20N should be 'hard-wired' ("Should be permanently connected to the mains by a qualified electrician").

Kind Regards, John

To be honest, it's a bit carp plugging bits of fixed wiring into sockets in loft spaces - though I appreciate it's a quick easy way to do it.

sparkwright · 21 Jan 2017

JohnW2 said:
If, per your suggestion, it were an RCD FCU, it would presumably have to be 'out of zones' as well as 'out of harm's way'?
Agreed. The one selected by the OP certainly has a pull cord. However, I suspect that some people would nevertheless want/advise some sort of external switch/isolator.

Kind ReEgards, John

I wouldn't put an RCD in the bathroom. I would want everything in the bathroom RCD protected, so that would mean having the RCD outside of the bathroom.

sparkwright · 21 Jan 2017

Is plugging a bathroom heater into a random socket which happens to RCD protected good enough?

Surely someone could simply unplug this heater and plug it into something else, even if it's an extension lead from an unprotected socket.

The more I think about it, the socket idea is a rubbish idea.

JohnW2 · 21 Jan 2017

sparkwright said:
To be honest, it's a bit carp plugging bits of fixed wiring into sockets in loft spaces - though I appreciate it's a quick easy way to do it.

That's obviously what I was also saying, but I suppose it's more a 'gut feeling' than anything else.

In electrical terms there is, in reality, very little difference between plugging it into an RCD socket and hard-wiring it into a RCD FCU. Some people will undoubtedly argue that the connection achieved by a 'permanently plugged-in plug' is inferior to that achieved by hard-wiring - but most of us (certainly including me) are living with appliances which have been permanently plugged into sockets (and never unplugged) for many years, without any problems.

For what it's worth, and given the very small difference in effort, if I were pursuing vteh type of options we have been considering, I would personally probably put an RCD FCU in front of the existing loft socket and then hard-wire the heater to that socket.

Kind Regards, John

JohnW2 · 21 Jan 2017

sparkwright said:
Is plugging a bathroom heater into a random socket which happens to RCD protected good enough? Surely someone could simply unplug this heater and plug it into something else, even if it's an extension lead from an unprotected socket.

Theoretically true, but probably essentially hypothetical in the OP's case. If the plug on the end of the heater cable were in the loft, it is very hard to imagine why/how it would ever be unplugged and plugged into something else.

sparkwright said:
The more I think about it, the socket idea is a rubbish idea.

As I've said, I wouldn't personally do it, although I don't think that the arguments for not doing it are particularly strong.

Kind Regards, John

JohnW2 · 21 Jan 2017

sparkwright said:
I wouldn't put an RCD in the bathroom. I would want everything in the bathroom RCD protected, so that would mean having the RCD outside of the bathroom.

Fair enough - but if (per all the discussions) the cable entering the bathroom (and RCD-protected) originated from an FCU or plug, there would really be no need for an FCU (i.e. a further, unnecessary, fuse) in the bathroom.

Kind Regards, John

sparkwright · 21 Jan 2017

JohnW2 said:
Fair enough - but if (per all the discussions) the cable entering the bathroom (and RCD-protected) originated from an FCU or plug, there would really be no need for an FCU (i.e. a further, unnecessary, fuse) in the bathroom.

Kind Regards, John

Not sure if they do an RCD to fit a standard single box without the fuse.

The fuse is good though as no doubt someone else will come along stating there is no fuse for the heater, as he hasn't considered someone has gone and stuck it in the loft.

JohnW2 · 21 Jan 2017

sparkwright said:
Not sure if they do an RCD to fit a standard single box without the fuse.

I made that point to the OP earlier - I'm not aware of such an animal (a little odd, but maybe the market would not be big enough), so one would likely end up with the bulkiness/untidiness of a standard RCD in some sort of DIN enclosure.

However, I was talking about the discussed situation in which there would be both an FCU and a fuse outside of the bathroom (either an RCD FCU or an RCD socket plus plug) - in which case an additional fuse in a bathroom FCU would be unnecessary.

Kind Regards, John

diynot

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.

Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

Putting bathroom heater on shower circuit?

Similar threads