Wooden joists attached to RSJ mess

Nick Pain · 22 Jan 2017

Hi All
I have lifted the floor in our renovation to find the builders have not made a particularly nice job of attaching the joists to the RSJ as you can see in the photograph.

Am I correct in thinking the proper way would be with a piece of word infilling the web of the RSJ and joist hangers rather than the way then have done this?

Can anyone suggest a way to fix this without removing all of the joists, cutting down the ends and refitting correctly? I would really like to avoid removing the plasterboard ceiling below which is still attached to the joists if I can.

I realise that the wiring is a mess as well but the house is being rewired so this will get sorted!

Thanks very much for your help and opinions!

^woody^ · 22 Jan 2017

If you had not lifted the floor, what would be wrong with it?

Nick Pain · 22 Jan 2017

It creaked a lot and had a ridge where the piece of wood that is on top of the joists is too high

bernardgreen · 22 Jan 2017

That is not satifactory. These cables are at serious risk of being squashed if there is any movement of timber relative to RSJ.

Nick Pain said:
Can anyone suggest a way to fix this without removing all of the joists,

Get the builders back to correct their poor standards of work.

Nick Pain · 22 Jan 2017

Errrr unfortunately the builders finished this job in 1983 so as much as I would like to get them back I think that ship has sailed!

Kinda looking for some practical suggestions to make this right please!

vinn · 22 Jan 2017

Trace your cables to an accessible location (from where they came or to wherever they are going) where connections can be loosened and the cables snaked back to release them from behind the joist tails.
Then drill the joists - and either drill the RSJ or go to that near wall and run them over the RSJ behind the plaster, in a metal capped safe zone.
Or abandon the cables and run new cables in better locations.
Asking in the elec forum will probably throw up some ideas.

Cut the projecting nibs of joist back just shy from the RSJ and glue on a strip of packing touching only the RSJ.
Plane the packing a couple of mm's shy of level with the joist tops.
You've removed sheet board flooring so go back with the same - span the rsj with a full width board - dont have a join over it.

You could set back noggins both sides of the RSJ if it seems worthwhile?

Nick Pain · 22 Jan 2017

Thanks for the reply Vinn.

Cables are not a concern as the house is being rewired anyway.

Are the joists ok fitted into the RSJ like that? Seems like a bodgy way of doing it, should they not be in joist hangers?

^woody^ · 22 Jan 2017

If the joists have not moved in 34 years, then I'd suggest that there is no problem to remedy.

If there is a ridge, then you need to reduce the timber packing above the beam to deal with that.

Creaking is most likely related to the floor deck fixing.

foxhole · 22 Jan 2017

Chances of the timber moving further into the steel and squashing cable is virtually nil.
Timber which overhangs the steel seems to be splitting on many joists. could do with a screw or two down into it to stabilise it or is risks snapping off like the one in the pick caused by the pipe position.Or you could trim it either side of the steel and make timber bridges secured right across the steel to give an unbroken base for the floor.

Nick Pain · 22 Jan 2017

If that method of fitting joists to RSJs is ok then happy days as that is another job off of my list, it just looked a bit bodgy!

The span is 3.7m and they are 197 x 47 joists which I am pretty sure falls inside the regs though I have no way of knowing the grade of timber used when it was built, no stamps anywhere to be seen.

The floor seemed pretty bouncy before we took the 18mm T&G chipboard up which was part of the reason I was asking about the fixings to the RSJ

^woody^ · 22 Jan 2017

Bouncy floors are generally due to lack of noggins or other bracing. That's different to creaking.

Nick Pain · 22 Jan 2017

Currently there are X braces made out of 25 x 25mm wood half way along the 3.7m span and no other bracing or noggins anywhere.

What amount of bracing or noggins would be appropriate for this span? There are 12 joists at 400mm centres.

Ian H · 22 Jan 2017

2 noggins equally spaced between each joist.

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Wooden joists attached to RSJ mess

Nick Pain

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^woody^

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vinn

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^woody^

foxhole

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^woody^

Nick Pain

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