Not a supporter of ken livingstone, but can someone explain why he is being so severely criticised. All he said was that hitler believed in creating a state of Israel (zionism) but then went mad and murdered 6 million jews. I'm not trying to be controversial or argumentative, I really don't understand the problem. Can someone explain? many thanks.
ken livingstone and zionism, please explain
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probably because he is a public figure X mayor of London ,M.P and a member of the Labour party.
personally I could not careless what his views are about Hitler or any one else.
To many people offended by any thing today imho
personally I could not careless what his views are about Hitler or any one else.
To many people offended by any thing today imho
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vinty
They want to make an example of him as warning to others.
They want to cleanse the Labour party of critics of Israel.
Livingstone isn't the first victim of the pro Israel lobby but he is probably the most high profile.
There was a documentary a few months ago about the activities of a pro Israel group, members were covertly filmed discussing tactics on how to deal with "anti semites" they also suggested that deputyForeign secretary Alan Duncan should be "brought down"(their words not mine) because of his criticism of Israel.
They said that Duncan was a bigger threat than Boris Johnson because they regarded Johnson as an idiot.
Also filmed was a pro Israel Labour MP discussing funding from Israel with other activists.
When the film was aired the Labour party brought the issue up in the commons, the government said the matter had been dealt with and the Israeli activist who worked at the Israeli embassy had been sacked and that was the end of the matter.
They want to cleanse the Labour party of critics of Israel.
Livingstone isn't the first victim of the pro Israel lobby but he is probably the most high profile.
There was a documentary a few months ago about the activities of a pro Israel group, members were covertly filmed discussing tactics on how to deal with "anti semites" they also suggested that deputyForeign secretary Alan Duncan should be "brought down"(their words not mine) because of his criticism of Israel.
They said that Duncan was a bigger threat than Boris Johnson because they regarded Johnson as an idiot.
Also filmed was a pro Israel Labour MP discussing funding from Israel with other activists.
When the film was aired the Labour party brought the issue up in the commons, the government said the matter had been dealt with and the Israeli activist who worked at the Israeli embassy had been sacked and that was the end of the matter.
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Doggit
But thats the odd thing about this piece of idiocy. The Labour party automatically stand up for the Palestinians, and that means that they end up denegrating Isreal, yet then deny they are anti semetic. Naz Shah made anti semetic comments, and Livingstone stood up for her, and ended up pointing out that Hitler supported Zionism by trying to get the Jews to go to an Isreali state before Goebells decided to exterminate them. But becuase there are also Jewish supporters in the Labour party, as soon as Livingstone mentioned the "H" word, he was vilified by both sides; The Jewish side for saying that Hitler may not have commited genocide, and the others because a Labour member mentioned Hitler.
But if you read any of Livingstones comments, he manages to contradict himself at every turn, so I don't think I've got the whole picture yet.
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vinty
I think Livingstones comments have been taken out of context and twisted for obvious reasons.
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EddieM
likewise, I am not a Livingstone fan, but I do think it is a fuss over nothing, so you are not allowed to mention Jews and Hitler in the same sentence? Before anyone asks, I am no denier of the holocaust inflicted on the Jews. I am also no great fan of Israel.
History has to be changed so as not to offend anyone.
If people bother to investigate via Google they will see Hitler and the Jews did, albeit for a short period pre war, exactly as Livingstone said.
Politicians and others have twisted the truth in his statement to deny the truth all Ken does is keep repeating historic fact.
Unfortunately even though they have succeeded it banning him they are harming their cause in some peoples view.
If people bother to investigate via Google they will see Hitler and the Jews did, albeit for a short period pre war, exactly as Livingstone said.
Politicians and others have twisted the truth in his statement to deny the truth all Ken does is keep repeating historic fact.
Unfortunately even though they have succeeded it banning him they are harming their cause in some peoples view.
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EddieM
If and if what Ken said is true, I don't see the problem. If and again if it is true then the issue I would have is in revisionist history, that is quite worrying.
He is probably being attacked because he is a prominent left-wing Labourite, so does not fit well with the Blairite wing.
AFAIK his remarks relate to historical matters; which can presumably be shown to be true, untrue, or arguable. I do not know which is the case. No doubt scholars and historians will argue it out.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-disrepute-hitler-zionism-former-london-mayor
He should certainly not be attacked based on misrepresentation of his views. His actual words are on record.
AFAIK his remarks relate to historical matters; which can presumably be shown to be true, untrue, or arguable. I do not know which is the case. No doubt scholars and historians will argue it out.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...-disrepute-hitler-zionism-former-london-mayor
He should certainly not be attacked based on misrepresentation of his views. His actual words are on record.
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Doggit
Nothing to do with revising history I'm afraid, more to do with the knee jerk reaction of KL uttering the words Hitler, and Jews in the same sentence, especially as the Labour pary having issues with Israel that it tried to airbrush with Chakrabarties whitewhashed investigation.
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