Planning for replacement drive

Do i need planning to replace my concrete drive with a block paved drive.

The block paving will not be porous, just std BP.

I understand this type of change is not being enforced by councils.

I will check with BC, but thought i would ask here.

No.

Ok, but from reading about it i think i might need it. It was brought in during 2008 i think but not many councils are enforcing it. I just don't want to be in a situation where i rip it up and then get done for not complying.

The planning portal has a page on this:
https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/45/paving_your_front_garden

If the surface to be covered is more than five square metres planning permission will be needed for laying traditional, impermeable driveways that do not provide for the water to run to a permeable area.

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My local authority are issuing enforcement notices for this, and a neighbour had to dig up their newly paved drive to install a linear drain along the front edge going to one of those reinforced water storage crates. When I did mine a few years before I installed similar under one drive and took the other to an existing land drain. The council came knocking while the old tarmac drive was being removed and where happy that I did not need PP after a short chat about how I would comply. (They arrived within 2 hours of work commencing - I've never seen an LA officer respond so quickly!)

You don't technically need to install a soakaway - I've seen people just fit a linear drain that runs into a flowerbed or gravel area. Linear drains are cheap and easy to fit if you have a straight edge to run to, but any drain that runs to a border like that is all you'd need to comply.

Really the only time you should need to apply for PP is if you have nowhere to run the water to, such as a narrow front garden/drive with walls either side. In that scenario, if it is not reasonable to install a soakaway due to position of services, ground conditions, etc, then PP would likely be granted.

I have read what you have detailed and it seems if my area are bothering enforcing then i will need PP. My drive is over 5sqm. It also drains onto the pavement and then road. I need to speak to BC to see if they are enforcing it.

If you speak to the council they will tell you that you should either apply for PP if it won't comply or pay for a LDC if it will (which are a waste of money). In reality most LAs will not enforce non-PD drive replacements unless you obviously take the micky by installing a carpark that drains onto the highway. They just don't have the staff resources. You can't guarantee that yours are like that though.

A reasonable guide would be to be to look at neighbouring properties that have replaced their drives recently and if they are not PD ask the homeowner if they applied for PP (or search your LAs online planning portal for applications). If neighbours have been non-compliant without receiving enforcement then you might find the risk acceptable. Personally if I had a straight border at the lowest point I would just put a linear drain in as they are cheap, easy to install, and give you a neat edge to start your block pattern from.

I do have a garden at the front and suppose i could put drainage in where the drive meets the pavement.

Is this all you need to do to meet regs then ? Seems easy and yes it will give a nice finish for the block paving.

I also intend on extending the drive about 700mm into the border as it can be a bit tight when getting out of the car parked on here.

The drain channel would then deposit where my little wall is. This will be coming down and rebuilt as well. The channel seems a bit difficult to accommodate though.

With a front edge like that I'd put one narrow-edge row of grey concrete edging stones set level with the pavement (the sacrificial edge that would be disturbed if the pavement is ever resurfaced) then a linear drain, then start your block pattern/border. It will give a neat transition between the surfaces.

You can just run the water from the drain straight onto your flower bed to comply, but given the size of the area and that the fall is away from the flower bed it might quickly get saturated.

If your downpipe at the front goes to an existing soakaway rather than a combined sewer you could just run a length of plastic pipe to that location via a suitable trap and a tee. If not then dig a little trench behind where the new wall footings will go and run a length of land drainage pipe (or if you are patient cut slots in normal plastic drainage pipe), wrap in a bit of the landscaping fabric you'll use under the paving and chuck some pea gravel around it. It will be cheaper than using aquacells and less digging if you are doing it by hand. If you are going to replant behind the new wall the plants will get free watering during the summer when you wash your car. Make sure you have proper edging between the blocks and the garden so the sand doesn't get washed out from the edges.

If all you need is 3m of linear drain + a 3m length of drainage pipe + a trap + half a dozen bags of pea gravel it would only add about £100 to your costs, and you'd save £20 of block paving against that. You've got water or gas entering your property at the end of the drive so be aware the other services may enter along a similar route.

Thanks for info.

Yes i know where the services come in as i am redoing drains as well and will be tapping into the combined sewer/water where that downpipes is going. Has a camera survey and i have my own connection which is great as doing extension round the back and would prefer to have my own outlet. Hence new drive (plus its awful).

Good idea about the paving stones next to the pavement. This will allow me to also set the drain a bit higher up the drive, so missing the wall.

You mention about the edging and i think i know what to use. Ideally i will use a yorkshire stone block, but if that is too much i will go for the marshalls tegula range (if they still make it). Not too keen on the herringbone designs.

Maybe I've misunderstood something here but replacing a concrete drive - which won't be porous with a block paving drive in my book is making no difference to the drainage of the drive; if anything block paving is actually making the drainage more acceptable than concrete. I'd be more concerned about the likelihood of the extra water in the ground close toyour house causing rising damp into the property.

wgt52 said:

Maybe I've misunderstood something here but replacing a concrete drive - which won't be porous with a block paving drive in my book is making no difference to the drainage of the drive

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The rule the same for new and replacement surfaces, even replacing like for like would require PP if it does not fall under PD. If it is more than 5m2, is impermeable, and does not drain to a permeable surface, soakaway, etc, it needs PP.

Once the blocks have been down for a season or two the sand will bind and the surface will be impermeable and behave the same as solid concrete.

trevorbayliss said:

Good idea about the paving stones next to the pavement.

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I meant more the narrow concrete edging you often find at the perimeter of tarmac finished pavements. They provide a nice firm front to the drive which helps to prevent the bedding material migrating under the pavement and forming ruts where you drive on and off the drive. You could have the drainage pipe exit the end at whatever angle you wanted to clear your new wall footings.

Tegulas are nice and age well, whilst not being that expensive. Tobermore do them too which can work out cheaper than Marshalls if your local merchant deals with them. They do matching kerb stones too.

update. I do need planning if i don't go for a soak away to the garden.

So i am going to see if i can go this route because i have paid for PP for my extension, but it has been turned down and so i am doing it under permitted dev rights. So i hope to use the payment for PP for this and switch it to the drive.