Cheap Tools

rsgaz said:

It's a must have if you really want to bugger all the screw heads

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Actually I find them way better than a drill driver for this - I torque out way more frequently using the latter!

SammyInnit said:

For a fad, they've stuck like **** to a blanket

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Just like wearing pyjamas to go shopping in Asda then.

The thing is, everyone on site seems to have an impact driver now even when they are just hanging a few doors. Even scaffolders are struggling up poles with a massive holster to hold their 18v impacts, FFS.

But for DIY, there is no point at all.

rsgaz said:

It's a must have if you really want to bugger all the screw heads, wildly overtighten everything, splitting the wood you were screwing into in the process. They're also great at chewing up wall plugs so that the screw just spins freely and now won't come out either!! Also, they make loads of noise and irritate staff/customers where you are working!!! Brilliant!

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Without them neither I, nor many other chippies, could undertake many first fix tasks without a lot more effort. Not everything can be nailed together, nor is there time to carefully drill, countersink and slowly screw each and every screw, so they have their place. If you are buggering screw heads with them, then you are probably using cheap and nasty screws (Thorsmen, anybody?), or cheap bits, or worn bits, or just not putting enough pressure behind the driver to keep the bit in contacy with the screw head (all things we get with apprentices, BTW). Like many other things in life it takes a bit of experience to learn how to control them and how to feather the start button. Splitting wood? Screw further in from the end if possible and ideally us slightly damp wood (no problem with half the timber we get out of merchants) - they really don't work well with super dry timber, or most hardwoods. Screwing up wall plugs? Drill the hole smaller (the right size?) and feather the button. OK, I'll concede that they are noisy, but the speed advantage they give you where you need to drive many thousands of screws are well worth it IMHO. BTW, want a quiet impact driver? Then consider the Makita oil impact driver.

rsgaz said:

IMHO, they should only be used on much larger diameter screws, like 8mm coach screws and for M8 and up nuts/bolts, they are actually quite good for that. Certainly a stupid idea for Phillips or Pozi head screws. Torx heads are just about OK with them, but only for larger diameters again, T25-ish head and up.

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Nah! See above. One thing I will say is that if you want to drive tiny little #6 or 3mm screws (the sort used to secure kickplates, etc) then a single-speed impact is almost useless because it' just too powerful for those wimpy little screws - but that's why manufacturers such as Panasonic, Makita, etc have multi-speed models where you can turn the speed/impact strength down. When you have one of those drivers it becomes more of a go-to tool than the drill/driver because it's lighter, smaller and has a longer battery life

I have to (almost) agree with Woody, though, that for the vast majority of DIY, where people surely aren't under the same time pressure that we tradesmen are, they can seem just a bit pointless

Have to say I have not experienced any of the problems with impacts as described above. I even put flat pack together with one, which is really a strict no no. Must be your technique.. work great for me.

JobAndKnock said:

If you are buggering screw heads with them, then you are probably using cheap and nasty screws (Thorsmen, anybody?), or cheap bits, or worn bits

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That's not really my issue with them, it's not me buggering them, it's other trades buggering screws with them. I own a Ryobi impact driver, and pretty much never use it!! It just annoys me when you go to unscrew some boxed in cables/pipes for example and the screw heads are totally ruined, then painted over!! When they were only 1½" No8 screws, using an impact driver is idiotic IMO.

As for cheap bits, it also amazes me how people now see screwdriver bits as disposable and get through several bits every day. The screwdriver bits I use at work usually last me about 5 years!!

rsgaz said:

That's not really my issue with them, it's not me buggering them, it's other trades buggering screws with them. I own a Ryobi impact driver, and pretty much never use it!! It just annoys me when you go to unscrew some boxed in cables/pipes for example and the screw heads are totally ruined, then painted over!! When they were only 1½" No8 screws, using an impact driver is idiotic IMO.

As for cheap bits, it also amazes me how people now see screwdriver bits as disposable and get through several bits every day. The screwdriver bits I use at work usually last me about 5 years!!

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That's another thing. I've borrowed tools in the past, and I have to say the condition of some of them is unbelievable, half the time I expect things to not work because they're not looked after.

On a side note, buying a job lot of tools for £20 quid. Screw drivers, pliers of various types, and what looks like a cheap cordless combi with battery and charger. Might not get much use out of it before it dies, but worth it for all the other tools alone I can use to grow my own arsenal as to be honest I only have one screw driver with the change my heads. Why not!

A drill driver is much more likely to knacker a screw head than an impact driver due to the way they work. The knackered screw heads were most likely done by a drill driver, seen it happen many times.

Impact drivers are much better for removing stuck fixings and have easy speed control so can screw in easy without any damage at all, much easier to screw things in softer/slower than a drill driver.

screech said:

A drill driver is much more likely to knacker a screw head than an impact driver

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Utter bull, unless you don't bother to adjust the clutch on the drill driver.

I don't understand how some can't feather the trigger with their finger, I've watched guys operate an impact like they were wearing boxing gloves, either caming out, over driving the screw, snapping bits - I just don't get it.

Ok you don't need an 18v impact to put kitchen carcasses together when a 10.8v screwdriver will do but i could quite easily use the 18v if i had to, totally overkill but the precision is in your finger not the tool, you don't jump into your car and drive full throttle lights to lights junction to junction, it's all down to your right foot.

Select the best tool for the job, impacts have cemented their place while drill drivers are perfectly adequate for some situations others not so and the impact would work better, both have a place, having said that i have a dewalt 10.8v impact, a screwdriver and a drill, I also have a dewalt 18v impact with 3 torque settings and a beast of a drill/driver that came with it, I've driven 140mm concrete screw/window fixings with the 10.8v and used the 18v beast of an impact to screw farty little hinges, totally the wrong way around but I managed because it seems that my brain is connected to my fingers, ordinarily you wouldn't but you could if you had to, those who can't use any impact without stripping heads need to stay at home

rsgaz said:

Utter bull, unless you don't bother to adjust the clutch on the drill driver.

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...you're not likely to move anything let alone knacker it if the clutch slips

I'd like a cordless screwdriver (not a drill) with a clutch, variable speed, 1/4" drive and preferably a 2nd battery.

I'm not having much luck in finding one that does all that.

mattylad said:

I'd like a cordless screwdriver (not a drill) with a clutch, variable speed, 1/4" drive and preferably a 2nd battery.

I'm not having much luck in finding one that does all that.

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Here's my set of 3, the impact and drill are a combo set from screwfix, £99 + vat, the screwdriver I already had for a couple of years, ok only 1.3ah batteries but for a low draw tool they are perfectly adequate, model number DCF610



Dirt cheap too.....

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/dewalt-dcf...iver-screwdriver-dcf610n-bare-case/1062536629

mattylad said:

I'd like a cordless screwdriver (not a drill) with a clutch, variable speed, 1/4" drive and preferably a 2nd battery.

I'm not having much luck in finding one that does all that.

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https://www.angliatoolcentre.co.uk/...gZK3mr9cm6lBZBTh8Qf3YeqVc_pMc20XtPxoCNXfw_wcB

There's also a brushless version which is smaller but a bit more expensive. Unless you're after a pencil driver?

cheers, as good as the makita etc are these are more like drills than a cordless screwdriver.
The weight alone puts me off holding one of those for hours while I do up screws, the dewalt is more the shape of what I want however as I have to buy my own tools the price of them puts me off (as good as it may be).
I mainly want one for terminal block screws, I can do several hundred up in a day and if using a manual screwdriver by lunch cramp sets into my hand and I can no longer hold anything.

I'm pushing for my employer to buy it (as they should) but that's like piddling into the wind

I bought a similar one to the dewalt pictured, it was a 3.6v and to be honest the worst dewalt tool I'd ever bought, absolutely zero torque and would struggle to drive an inch screw into softwood, anything seized or tight then it just would not turn, put it back in it's box and left it in the garage, 4 years later still brand new I gave it away when I had a garage clear out, might be alright for electrical work as is very light and the torque might be enough, you can also twist these in the centre to form a pistol type grip, mine had a push button but did the same thing