Smart meter instal with shared fuse

I have a house conversion into 5 self contained flats, each with their own gas and electric meters.
I wanted to put in a smart meter for the landlords electricity supply which has its own meter. This provides stair lighting, emergency lights, door entry system and fire alarm. However, the landlords meter is sharing its main fuse with one of the flats.

Lowri Beck today said they cannot connect a meter on a shared supply main fuse. Is this correct.
It was suggested I put in a red box (isolating fuse) and maybe then it would be allowed.

On another matter, when Lowri Beck were checking the main fuse head, they noticed the separate neutral box containing the neutrals from all five flats and the landlords was overcrowded and not safe. They want to report this issue and enforce me to attend the rectification.
Happy to do so, but the fuse head was installed by the electricity board (appreciate they are no longer called that!) together with the landlords supply and of course, this overcrowding of the neutral block. I now have to be on a 3 hour standby for them to access the building.

My concern being that who is responsible for the supply head/fuse, Lowri Beck say they are just sub contractors for the energy supply company, in this case Scottish Power. But as each flat can choose whatever supplier they like, they are all sharing a common neutral. Complicated I know, but Lowri Beck couldn't be more unhelpful.

Your contract is with the DNO not Lowri Beck so you have to talk to the DNO who in turn tell Lowri Beck what to do. The big question is why have you only got 5 meters instead of 6? If the DNO has made a mistake then up to them to rectify, if however you have made a mistake then they still rectify, but they charge you.

Distribution Network Operator (DNO)

It is quite normal where the land lord lives in one of the flats to have stair lighting, emergency lights, door entry system and fire alarm on their meter, however if all are rented then there needs to be a land lords meter, so big question is when made into flats what was asked for?

I know there have been agreements where the people in the flat with the stair lighting, emergency lights, door entry system and fire alarm are given a discount to allow for the cost of the power used, or even a second meter.

It was common for the land lord to actually own the meters to each flat, however they are not allowed to make a profit on the power, and having one meter owned by DNO and then 5 owned by land lord means the tenants have no option on who supplies them.

However really Lowri Beck should not talk to you, they should talk to their client the DNO who in turn talks to you, and the reverse is also true, you talk to the DNO who in turn talk to Lowri Beck the only thing Lowri Beck should talk to you about is when they require access.

The Smart meter can be remotely switched off, I can see where there would be a problem switching off power to a flat which would put the rest of tenants in danger. So may be there are now new rules, maybe some one will come along and say if there are new rules.

I read it as six meters.

The question is why do you want a smart meter?

Thank you both for replies.
Yes there are 6 meters, everyone is separate. The main fuse head was put in as original for the 6 meters, it's just that the landlords supply/meter tails had been shared with one flat into the main fuse.

I requested a smart meter as the meter reader can never get access to read the meter as it's inside in the communal hall, with the main entrance door always locked. It just made sense to have it read electronically.

How does the meter reader get access to read the meters in the flats?

And if they aren't stitching you up with "estimated" bills, and are happy for you to give them the readings almost all of the time, why not leave things as they are?

tryitandsee said:

Thank you both for replies.
Yes there are 6 meters, everyone is separate. The main fuse head was put in as original for the 6 meters, it's just that the landlords supply/meter tails had been shared with one flat into the main fuse.

I requested a smart meter as the meter reader can never get access to read the meter as it's inside in the communal hall, with the main entrance door always locked. It just made sense to have it read electronically.

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It would seem not your problem, it is all on the DNO side where the problem lies, so all you have to do is give them access to correct it.

Some of the tenants have applied for smart meters and been installed with no problems the rest just arrange meter readings or arrange access as normal. I hoped to have the smart meter as I'm not in attendance at the house and the meter is never read officially.
Basically I now wishing I never requested a smart meter in the first place. The more I get involved in trying to keep things simple it goes tits up. From my having smart meter's for both gas and electric at my home address, I am thinking there is hardly any benefit whatsoever, just an incredible amount of money being spent of something that is really a marketing scam thought up by the environmentalists.

tryitandsee said:

just an incredible amount of money being spent of something that is really a marketing scam thought up by the environmentalists.

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There's a surprise.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/consumer-affairs/six-reasons-say-no-smart-meter/

OK, this morning I get a phone call from SSE to arrange an urgent inspection of the neutral block, was given half an hour to attend to let them have access.

Nice chap from SSE (35 years in the job and couldn't wait to retire, saying Lowri Beck are employing unsuitable people that are not fully able to evaluate each job) took one look at it and commented that the Lowri Beck chap must have been a jobs worth. He said he didn't need to rectify the common neutral block as it was perfectly OK. All Lowri Beck needed to do was pull the main fuse, put in the smart meter and leave.

In conclusion, I phoned Lowri Beck and they investigated the actions of the previous day and now say the meter should have been changed as planned and they will now make another appointment and send a more senior engineer who will carry out the job.

NB. Just to finish my rant, the chap who originally came was accompanied with a second electrical engineer, both of which tried to phone their supervisors to get an answer to the shared fuse problem and must have been on their mobiles for three quarters of an hour. Eventually getting an answer being told to 'walk away'.

The time and money it must be costing, with two men, vans, tools etc. etc. etc. to change the nations meters must be unbelievable.

The old engineer also stated that technically most of the installation of these smart meters shouldn't be done as 50% of the time the wiring in most properties is not up to standard anyway.............and if the DNO had to be called out to everyone they would be bankrupt within the year.

All these things are what those people who vote for political parties which are ideologically driven to sell the country's infrastructure to private companies want to happen.

ban-all-sheds said:

All these things are what those people who vote for political parties which are ideologically driven to sell the country's infrastructure to private companies want to happen.

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Maybe, but I think things can be even worse, in some respects, when such activities are in public ownership. In other words, one can't win!

Kind Regards, John

If things are worse then it will be due to managerial incompetence, poor oversight, etc. The fact of public ownership per se is not the cause, and the fix is to improve competence etc, not flog it off to a private company (which is often a state owned business anyway).

ban-all-sheds said:

If things are worse then it will be due to managerial incompetence, poor oversight, etc. The fact of public ownership per se is not the cause ....

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True, but I think many would say that history has shown that managerial incompetence seems to have been more rife in 'nationalised' industries than in the public sector.

Whatever, I'm not going to get involved in a political discussion in this forum, other than to observe that I think we have seen that neither of the two main traditional polarised ideologies/strategies/approaches have proved to be particularly impressive.

Kind Regards, John

And a DNO simply won't go bankrupt, they'll just up their chargable costs to cover their free work.

They've already started charging more for certain work recently because the government has brought in a new policy where they have to install bigger cables than required in certain situations to future proof them.

We did a new 100A 3P&N install that would normally be 35mm CNE, they installed 185mm CNE nearly up to the meter shed and then jointed 35mm CNE onto it. This is should anybody else want a supply in the future, the cable is ready and they're wasting less (this was all on private land from a pole mounted tranny so unlikely but they have to follow the policy)

At least, this is what the DNO guy was saying.