Help I am struggling to understand

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I am trying to get to grips wth how many showers can be run off one source, as I have mentioned previously we are updating my lads' flat, by creating an ensuite. It would be far easier to have a combi boiler as space is at a premium, but I am told that such would not run two showers.

In my own house when they lived with us as kids we built an extension over the garage to give us two extra bedrooms with ensuites, making three ensuites and main bathroom. the 3 ensuites are served by a 5 year old Salamander CT 50 pump (1.5 Bar), the original pump lasted 14 years.

Today I decided to do a water flow test on each one at a time, bucket and stopwatch as advised on here. The individual ensuites all came out at 7 litres per minute. The main bathroom, that is purely gravity fed (head 5 feet max), came out at 5 litres per minute. The actual shower power in each case was more than adequate, not powershower, but for example in the main ensuite the shower reached from head height one end of 1700mm bath to the other at floor level a good arc. They never complained when they lived here.

I then turned all 3 of the Salamander showers on together, probably the first time this has occurred, expecting that the power would drop off considerably, but it didn't. Yes there was a small difference but still very acceptable as a proper shower. Arc went 3/4 down the bath.

My question if a combi pushes water flow out at 13 - 15 litres per minute why cant two showers be run off it at the same time, Am I missing something as my "tests" show that this should be possible. We are not looking for a blasting power shower, just perhaps the ability, if it occurs, that a quick shower by both in the morning can be achieved at the same time.
 
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Say you have a combi providing hot water at 14 lpm. You could run 2 simultaneous showers where each used 7lpm (perhaps not much a shower by today's standards), provided that the cold water supply into the property could support this. However, run a hot tap elsewhere and one or both showers would suffer, as they would if the incoming cold flow rate is marginal and a lavatory were flushed or a cold tap turned on.
 
If you were using pumps, then I assume they were drawing water from a cold/hot water tank system. Therefore you were constrained by the capacity of the tanks, not by your incoming water supply.

With a combi boiler, both the hot and cold are driven off of the mains supply, so you need to check that is adequate to deliver the desired water flow rate. Plus the hot is constrained by your combis ability to heat the hot water. As other hot water sources are used, they can reduce the flow of hot to the showers (thermostatic showers help here).

You are essentially right though. If you had showers limited to 7 l/min, and assuming in winter your hot/cold ratio was 70/30, then you should still have adequate hot water supply to serve two of these showers (and assuming your cold water main can delivery 14 l/min or more). However, 7 l/min showers are similar to an electric showers performance, so not great. Are you sure your sons flat has showers only capable of this flow rate? 12+ l/min per shower is more the norm.
 
What's your incoming mains flow rate, from a kitchen or outside tap for example?
 
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but I am told that such would not run two showers.
If you consider 5 or 7 litres/minute is a decent shower then they will.

Many people would consider such a shower to be feeble in the extreme, hence installers not recommending two showers from a single combi boiler.
 
You could always wait 5minutes for one person to finish a shower.....What a ridiculous statement I hear !!!!!...Also what about the third and fourth people present who need a simultaneous shower....oh nooooo.
 
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lol...as eldest grandchild i was first in the tin bath......after the 4 sons!.the scum watered down with a pan of fresh warmish water!
 
If the baby was last to be bathed and the water was very dirty then one had to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bath water......
 
Muggles sorry about the time to get back re your question re flow into house, unfortunately the flat is 120 miles from where I live and until we get full landlord permission to alter I go down infrequently. Down there yesterday, incoming waterflow into house was14.8 ltpm mid afternoon 13.7 ltpm @ 7.30am.

Does this mean I am restricted to the size boiler I can have fitted, as my brain tells me that it cant have an output more than the input.

Chances are that the lads will have showers at different times, but I reiterate again my ensuite shower I use is 7 ltpm and does "tingle" if it does not knock me over.



From Fezster's comment above re 70/30 hot to cold ratio I am confused. Would the combi take say 14 ltpm to heat and send to shower/s and the cold input to the showers take 6 ltpm from mains therefore 10 ltpm to each shower; again my head tells me that this cant be right, can it?

Am I confusing flow and pressure, basically can two pipes coming off one pipe still have the same flow?
 
You really want 18-20lpm for a combi or unvented. 13-14 is not going to perform well.
 
With a combi, it's a bit of a balancing act between the incoming cold supply, and the hot water that's needed at the same time. With a pumped system, the hot water tank and the cold water are seperate, but with a combi, the cold water is getting heated and sent to the shower, but the shower also has to pull in cold water at the same time. But as long as you don't run one showers at a time, then most normal combis are okay. It's when someone tries to use the loo or fill the kettle whilst the shower is in use, that you notice how the cold water gets diverted, and the shower goes hot, so you need to make sure you have a good cold supply to start with. And if you want two shower going at the same time, then you need a 30Kw + shower to run them both, as well, as about a 24lpm incoming cold supply.
 
With a combi, it's a bit of a balancing act between the incoming cold supply, and the hot water that's needed at the same time.
So much simpler when an "accumulator" is used. Not the sealed type but the type that are a cistern in the loft. Yes .... I know there are flats and other places where it is not possible to install a cistern and that is why combi boilers were created.
 

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