Confusing overflow issue I've had for over 6 months

Mykola Senechyn · 18 Oct 2017

Madrab said:
The check valves would certainly remove the possibility of backflow through the cold, only thing I would add to that though is when using them on a gravity fed supply even a single check valve could affect the flow quite significantly.

The council boiler swaps were done on the tightest of budgets, moving the whole flat over to mains was an extra cost that they didn't need to spend, they did have to upgrade the heating system though to meet government guidelines and incentives.

Get the cold swapped over to the main, should be reasonably easy to do and then share the costs with your neighbour. Probably could have done it for the same price as swapping out all the taps and it also removes the thought of at least 50 gallons of cold water (nearly a 1/4 ton) resting above your head

Thanks for the reply.

I assume then if they are going to be switching us over to the mains then, they will have to run pipes from the boiler to the bathroom on the second floor, as it's fed from the tank above and has no communication with the boiler located on the first floor.

Also I'm currently able to control the overflow by opening the taps in my bathroom, if I get switched over to the mains, and the overflow continues, then I will no control and could potentially flood my house.
Could this be the case or will switching over to mains fix the issue, because my neighbors might still be using the tank.

I lived in the flat for 4 years now and only about 6 months ago did we start to get this issue.

Thanks for all the help, it would've taken me weeks to get all this information from the council. Much appreciated.

aptsys · 18 Oct 2017

Mykola Senechyn said:
The plumbers have checked the water tank and the ball valves and said that's not the issue, we recently changed all our mixer taps in the house, and still last night we still had the water running from the overflow pipe.

If you have cold water served from the tank, did you use mixer taps designed for low pressure systems? If not, there is a high chance of backfeed but also the mixers are unlikely to be particularly effective. Check valves will stop any backfeed, but only fix the symptoms not the cause.

Nige F · 18 Oct 2017

Mykola Senechyn said:
Thanks for the reply.

Also I'm currently able to control the overflow by opening the taps in my bathroom, if I get switched over to the mains, and the overflow continues, then I will no control and could potentially flood my house.
Could this be the case or will switching over to mains fix the issue, because my neighbors might still be using the tank.

Thanks for all the help, it would've taken me weeks to get all this information from the council. .

If any of the flats is using the tank there is the possibility that the mains water pressure is getting into the cold downservice. And logically if the mains pressure is enough to feed the tank then it will rise to that height through any "unofficial" route. But why are you concerned about the tank flooding ? There should be a large overflow pipe - you have said you can see it overflowing - can you see the pipe and the amount it's passing? The chances of the tank being overcome are very small.

Mykola Senechyn · 18 Oct 2017

Nige F said:
If any of the flats is using the tank there is the possibility that the mains water pressure is getting into the cold downservice. And logically if the mains pressure is enough to feed the tank then it will rise to that height through any "unofficial" route. But why are you concerned about the tank flooding ? There should be a large overflow pipe - you have said you can see it overflowing - can you see the pipe and the amount it's passing? The chances of the tank being overcome are very small.

A couple of days back, when the overflow pipe was running all night and we woke up to water dripping from the ceiling, which means the tank is above my bedroom. Since then we've kept the tap running non-stop to prevent anymore leaking from the ceiling until we find a solution to the problem. So if I get connected to the mains and the problem persists then I will have no control of the tank (above my room) by running the bathroom taps, and will have to knock on neighbors doors to turn on the their to lower the tank level. I assume.

Madrab · 18 Oct 2017

You need to know exactly what's going on up there, as @Nige F suggests the cistern's overflow pipe should be of such a diameter that it can handle more than can be put into it so it shouldn't overflow, if it is overflowing and dripping into your room then it's an immediate concern and needs isolated/bunged in the very short term till it can be sorted. It may not be directly above though as water can travel before it finds a weak spot in the ceiling to break through but again you need to know exactly what's going on up there. I am surprised you don't have a key, talk to the chap that comes next an see if you can 'borrow it' to make a copy.

If you have a hot water tap anywhere downstairs then that is the route that can be used to feed all the hot water pipework, the cold supply in the bathroom could probably be fed from the cold supply that's currently feeding the cold water storage cistern (CWSC) but that would be for the plumber performing the work to sort out

I'd like to understand the councils involvement though, is it rented? If so they need pressured to get it sorted immediately.

Mykola Senechyn · 18 Oct 2017

Madrab said:
You need to know exactly what's going on up there, as @Nige F suggests the cistern's overflow pipe should be of such a diameter that it can handle more than can be put into it so it shouldn't overflow, if it is overflowing and dripping into your room then it's an immediate concern and needs isolated/bunged in the very short term till it can be sorted. It may not be directly above though as water can travel before it finds a weak spot in the ceiling to break through but again you need to know exactly what's going on up there. I am surprised you don't have a key, talk to the chap that comes next an see if you can 'borrow it' to make a copy.

If you have a hot water tap anywhere downstairs then that is the route that can be used to feed all the hot water pipework, the cold supply in the bathroom could probably be fed from the cold supply that's currently feeding the cold water storage cistern (CWSC) but that would be for the plumber performing the work to sort out

I'd like to understand the councils involvement though, is it rented? If so they need pressured to get it sorted immediately.

Yeah it is rented, they just sending out plumbers unaware of the problem and when they arrive I have to explain the issue to them and they'll tell me there nothing they can do today, and that I need to call someone else to fix the problem. I've been on the phone multiple times, arguing with the council, get this sorted with the same results. I would hire a private contractor to just do the work because with me running the water all day, the cost is now not an issue, however they wont to able to access the loft same as me. I did manage to book a heating engineer to come around tomorrow to hopefully make the switch to the mains, but I still think that he going to tell me something completely different.

Madrab · 18 Oct 2017

I wouldn't fire into switching to the mains quite yet. As others have mentioned you need to get to the route cause as you switching over may not sort the issue. You do need to get a key, that's a priority.

The councils plumbers fobbing you off is not acceptable

If it's the councils property then it's their responsibility as the landlord to sort it, not yours, talk to citizens advice today about how you can immediately approach that to get them to sort it once and for all. I'd also contact your water supplier and explain the issue to them and what can be done about the water cost as you have to run the water constantly through not fault of your own and due to the council's apparent inaction.

Hot&Cold · 18 Oct 2017

Mykola Senechyn said:
they just sending out plumbers unaware of the problem and when they arrive I have to explain the issue to them and they'll tell me there nothing they can do today, and that I need to call someone else to fix the problem.

If the defects are not apparent when the contract plumber or private plumber arrives,then what can he/she do ?

Can you collect visual evidence to support your repair request, photos of the external overflow whilst overflowing,general external photos showing overflow pipes,safety valve terminations,condense pipes anything that conveys water, any damage caused by the overflow, clear photo's showing a thermometer under running mains cold tap with the temperature visible.

Email them the photos with a brief description.

your landlord/gas servicing contractor will have an asset list (excluding purchased properties) of which appliances that are fitted in your flats,you could ask them 'are all the boilers combination boilers'?

An external wall photo showing all the flue terminals would tell us which boilers are fitted.

Your boiler (guess its an ideal logic) heating the rads is another problem, again when the rads are heating,photo the thermostat,clock in the off position and a few photos of the boiler temperature gauge on the boiler,showing temperature rising.

Good luck,

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Confusing overflow issue I've had for over 6 months

Hot&Cold

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