Building Regs and Kitchen Extension

James999ft · 3 Dec 2017

Hi - sockets will be for fridge, dishwasher etc so plug in and forget. Room is being fitted from scratch so idea would be that electrician leaves a loop of wire behind where the cabinets will go, kitchen fitter cuts a socket sized hole in back of cupboard, pulls wire through, fits a back box etc to the cabinet as he installs it and either he or I wire in the socket after cabinet is fitted

Or would we be better with FCUs with the flex outlet fixed to the wall and a just a flex sized hole drilled through the cabinet?

ban-all-sheds · 3 Dec 2017

James999ft said:
Hi - sockets will be for fridge, dishwasher etc so plug in and forget.

So why not have them behind the appliances and not have to cut any holes in the cupboards?

James999ft · 3 Dec 2017

ban-all-sheds said:
So why not have them behind the appliances and not have to cut any holes in the cupboards?

The Dishwasher is integrated so if I put socket behind it then I would need to remove a fitted appliance to check or change a fuse. Fridge / freezer is freestanding (American type) so not as bad, but I 'd like to have a double socket where the second socket was accessible without pulling fridge out

thanks

JohnW2 · 3 Dec 2017

James999ft said:
The Dishwasher is integrated so if I put socket behind it then I would need to remove a fitted appliance to check or change a fuse.

That's very commonly said, but the reality is that fuses very rarely blow for no reason, so it's almost inevitable that if the fuse ever did blow, you would have to remove the appliance to have it inspected/repaired/replaced, anyway.

Kind Regards, John

JohnW2 · 3 Dec 2017

James999ft said:
The Dishwasher is integrated so if I put socket behind it then I would need to remove a fitted appliance to check or change a fuse.

That's very commonly said, but the reality is that fuses very rarely blow for no reason, so it's almost inevitable that if the fuse ever did blow, you would have to remove the appliance to have it inspected/repaired, anyway.

Kind Regards, John

echoes · 3 Dec 2017

Flex outlet behind appliance, fed from switched FCU above?

JohnW2 · 3 Dec 2017

echoes said:
Flex outlet behind appliance, fed from switched FCU above?

That's a common option, but what I just wrote still remains - that if it is ever necessary to change the fuse in the FCU, it will nearly always be necessary to also remove the appliance for inspection/repair/replacement.

Kind Regards, John

echoes · 3 Dec 2017

JohnW2 said:
That's a common option, but what I just wrote still remains - that if it is ever necessary to change the fuse in the FCU, it will nearly always be necessary to also remove the appliance for inspection/repair/replacement.

Kind Regards, John

That's true enough! And regardless of there being either a socket or outlet plate behind the appliance, I like a means of isolating said appliance in a hurry/emergency without having to (re)move it.

ban-all-sheds · 3 Dec 2017

There's one in the CU.

echoes · 3 Dec 2017

ban-all-sheds said:
There's one in the CU.

There is. Which is a fat lot of good when a single appliance needs isolation whilst keeping the rest of the circuit energised.

JohnW2 · 3 Dec 2017

echoes said:
There is. Which is a fat lot of good when a single appliance needs isolation whilst keeping the rest of the circuit energised.

It only has to be de-energised for long enough to do what is needed to unplug or disconnect the appliance - the circuit can then have its power back.

Furthermore, how often do you think that such an 'emergency' situation is likely to arise? In more decades than I care to remember of living with domestic appliances, I struggle to recall any occasions on which I have experienced such an emergency - so, unless you are unbelievably unlucky, it's probably not going to be even a once-per-year (maybe not even once-per-decade) occasion on which you have to deprive the circuit of power for a few minutes.

Kind Regards, John

James999ft · 3 Dec 2017

echoes said:
Flex outlet behind appliance, fed from switched FCU above?

This was my original plan but then I realised that with dishwasher, fridge, 2 x powered velux windows, ceiling mounted extractor fan, 2 x single ovens and hob (gas, but still needs electricity) then I could end up with an awful lot of wall mounted switches.

I get the point that it is very unlikely that a fuse would blow without it being due to a faulty appliance but would much prefer being able to access the switch and fuse without removing appliance - hence my preference to mount sockets in the adjacent cabinets, is this allowed?

Could I also power the 2 ovens and hob from a single fused switch? (seems to me that the 3 separate appliances are electrically identical to the standalone cooker with double oven and gas hob I previously used)

If I can do that, then I just need a wall mounted switch for the cooker and however many (between 1 and 3) that I need for the 2 x Veluxes and extractor fan

EFLImpudence · 3 Dec 2017

James999ft said:
This was my original plan but then I realised that with dishwasher, fridge, 2 x powered velux windows, ceiling mounted extractor fan, 2 x single ovens and hob (gas, but still needs electricity) then I could end up with an awful lot of wall mounted switches.

Exactly.

I get the point that it is very unlikely that a fuse would blow without it being due to a faulty appliance but would much prefer being able to access the switch and fuse without removing appliance - hence my preference to mount sockets in the adjacent cabinets, is this allowed?

It is, as you say, a preference. It is not needed.

Could I also power the 2 ovens and hob from a single fused switch? (seems to me that the 3 separate appliances are electrically identical to the standalone cooker with double oven and gas hob I previously used)

That is correct but only on a dedicated circuit. You cannot do that on a socket circuit.
Cooker switches are not fused.

James999ft · 3 Dec 2017

EFLImpudence said:
Exactly.

It is, as you say, a preference. It is not needed.

That is correct but only on a dedicated circuit. You cannot do that on a socket circuit.
Cooker switches are not fused.

That's helpful, thanks. I will have a 32A circuit for the cooker, and a 32A circuit for the sockets so sounds like I can (a) supply the cooker as if it was one appliance and just have a single unfused switch on the wall to isolate it and (b) put sockets either directly behind the fridge & DW or in the adjacent cupboards. Just leaves the 2 x Veluxes and extractor fan. Any chance these can be safely combined into fewer than 3 fcu's?

echoes · 3 Dec 2017

JohnW2 said:
It only has to be de-energised for long enough to do what is needed to unplug or disconnect the appliance - the circuit can then have its power back.

Furthermore, how often do you think that such an 'emergency' situation is likely to arise? In more decades than I care to remember of living with domestic appliances, I struggle to recall any occasions on which I have experienced such an emergency - so, unless you are unbelievably unlucky, it's probably not going to be even a once-per-year (maybe not even once-per-decade) occasion on which you have to deprive the circuit of power for a few minutes.

Kind Regards, John

For you and I it's not a big deal. But for someone who cannot physically move a washing machine or dishwasher which is faulty, having a switch is handy.

I admit these situations do not arise very often at all, but it's happened a few times (always when I've been at work or away from home) and I've been very relieved that things can be isolated and power restored pending investigation.

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Building Regs and Kitchen Extension

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