Need advice on 'extras' we're being charged for fitting a bathroom

Curiosity101 Now days its acceptable to ask the main contractor for a fixed price contract.

Curiosity101 said:

-Projects manage the installation with all that we supply/include.

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Still do not know what that is about,could be an expensive item.

Any contract has to specify what's being delivered, as well as the price.

Changes before signing are usually cheaper and easier than changes made after.

Quick update.

They've installed the radiator that they quoted for without checking with us. It's a towel radiator (I wanted a standard panel radiator cause I wanted to mount a mirror above it). We've now been told we have to pay for the radiator and if we want to change anything then we will have to pay for the radiator, and a new radiator and all the work to fit a new radiator, including taking part of the floor up.

I feel like I'm at a complete loss. They're just doing things, giving us a bill after the fact and then telling us it's now done so we have to pay for it cause they couldn't wait. I understand their point cause they do need to crack on but they've not once said 'this is going to cost you <x> extra, are you happy for us to proceed?' or 'this is going to cost you <x> extra, if we dont hear back we're going to assume it's ok and do the work'

Curiosity101 said:

They've installed the radiator that they quoted for without checking with us

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You said that you had to supply the rad and that the rad wasn't specified. Your story has no continuity

The quote, whilst detailed, specifies little and is vague.

The vagueness has allowed the builder to charge 'extras' boosting his profit

Its a 2 way street of trust in building works, because it is very difficult to write explicitly every last detail in a quote.

First post says supply radiator 70 quid, so i guess that's the quote, but they have fitted a towel rail instead.
I think you need to put your foot down otherwise you'll end up paying through the nose. Have a good chat and explain you'll only pay for things agreed before hand.

Dan Robinson said:

You said that you had to supply the rad and that the rad wasn't specified. Your story has no continuity

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It does have continuity.

We expected to supply the radiator as a result of them telling us we had to. But they then offered to supply one for us as an 'extra' for the price I posted in the first post (this price was sent to us last night at 9pm ish). Before we had a chance to do anything about it they fitted the one they quoted for this morning without any agreement from us.

If they'd just dropped us a message saying 'We need to fit the radiator tomorrow so we need to know if you want us to fit this' - we'd have responded by saying no and running out to Screwfix or something first thing this morning to get them one that was suitable before we went to work.

John D v2.0 said:

First post says supply radiator 70 quid, so i guess that's the quote, but they have fitted a towel rail instead.
I think you need to put your foot down otherwise you'll end up paying through the nose. Have a good chat and explain you'll only pay for things agreed before hand.

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I tried that just now. That's why I put in the update. That's the result of me trying to put my foot down.

He has requested that I get my husband to call him back later instead.

Curiosity101 said:

I tried that just now. That's why I put in the update. That's the result of me trying to put my foot down.

He has requested that I get my husband to call him back later instead.

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Get everything agreed in writing -email is good it has a clear correspondance stream.

I dont get the impression you are being ripped off, I do think there is a mixture of some valid extras, some not so valid for a bit extra profit and also poor communication from the builder in the mix.

The problem is in construction, lots of things get agreed verbally, the builder forgets because he has loads of jobs on, and during the work decisions get made on the hoof as there is pressure on to keep trades busy. The customer then feels stuff gets done without discussion, or something is substituted. The customers then feels stressed because they feel they either are forced to accept whats been done, or feel like they are complaining if they want something redone.

Talk to the guy as soon as poss. Dont leave the extras costing without saying until the end as that will cause more probs.

Notch7 said:

I dont get the impression you are being ripped off, I do think there is a mixture of some valid extras, some not so valid for a bit extra profit and also poor communication from the builder in the mix.

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The addition of £80 + VAT for extra pipework is a complete rip off. It leads me to suspect everything else. I feel for the OP. They wanted a bathroom, and presumably invited someone to quote. A lot of the "extra" is completely predictable, and should have been either included or indicated as a potential extra.

FWIW, I use to provide a written quote, and my standard quote had a section with a list of predictable extras including, for example, the cost of a replacement cylinder if a leak appeared once it was worked upon (that happened a couple of times out of several hundred boiler swaps. My policy was to never charge for anything that I missed that I should have spotted, but that is me.

I tend to agree that the builder is taking the pizz. A few things might be justifiable, but the wall, pipe work etc..... yeah, nah.

FiremanT said:

The addition of £80 + VAT for extra pipework is a complete rip off. It leads me to suspect everything else. I feel for the OP.

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Yes, I was in two minds whether to say 'not totally ripped off'

I cant see where extra pipework could be needed....I imagine plumbers have a typical sum they add to a bathroom fit to cover pipework, why would it be more?

Notch7 said:

Yes, I was in two minds whether to say 'not totally ripped off'

I cant see where extra pipework could be needed....I imagine plumbers have a typical sum they add to a bathroom fit to cover pipework, why would it be more?

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it would be a rare job where there are no plumbing alterations required

Notch7 said:

Yes, I was in two minds whether to say 'not totally ripped off'

I cant see where extra pipework could be needed....I imagine plumbers have a typical sum they add to a bathroom fit to cover pipework, why would it be more?

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The full story around the pipework is that we have a 15mm feed from the mains into the house, this then switches to a 22mm feed that feeds the whole house from our cold and hot feeds on the boiler. The rest of the house is still 15mm, but this was to make sure that any bathrooms were being fed with full 22mm to reduce the dreaded pressure drop if we use more than one tap in the bathroom.

When we had the boiler replaced we went for a pressurised system. We told the gas engineer that when we re do the driveway we're going to upgrade the mains cold feed to the biggest option the water board will let us have. So we expect to have 22mm mains -> 22mm feeds into and out of the boiler that feed the rest of the house. Most of the house will remain 15mm but it then gives us the option to run 22mm if/when we need to.

When the boiler work was done the plumber left two 22mm copper pipe tails around 5-10cm from the main hot and cold feeds next to the boiler, he ran these upstairs and along to just outside of the bathroom (under the floorboards) ready for use by whoever did the bathroom in the future. The work to plumb the bathroom in required attaching the 22mm pipes next to the boiler and then doing the plumbing for the various bathroom items.

The people doing the bathroom wanted to use the existing 15mm pipes that were already feeding the bathroom and adjust those as required. Hence the extra cost.

Now I would have felt that his complaint and charge was reasonable if I'd not told him any of this, but we told him all of this when he intially came around to quote. So this wasn't news to him, he'd just forgotten since he initially came around. But also to be honest the difference in pipework shouldn't be that much. The bit he's charged £80 + VAT for is just the attaching of the tails to the hot and cold next to the boiler.

Curiosity101 said:

>>Snip<<
So far the extras are:
>>Snip<<
£60 - Build up the floor with 9mm ply to even out the difference
>>unSnip<<

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If there is a problem with the floor requiring 'Levelling' then 9mm ply seems to be rather Thin - I'd be looking at a min of 15mm (marine or WBP) ply over board. 9mm ply will flex unless i is fully supported on the floor - if it flexes then the tiles will crack; insulation board will flex with the supporting floor. Or is the over boarding to ensure there is no gaps in the existing floor boards? Are they laying self levelling compound before the insulation boards? Either way that work should have been part of original quote.