Slim ceiling joist - where to get shallow downlights for bathroom?

...and one day some people might start to realise that other people have a choice as to what they do in their own houses.
 
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...and one day some people might start to realise that other people have a choice as to what they do in their own houses.
But no one does do they? You can't DIY gas. You can't DIY a lot of electrics without contacting building control. You can't knock walls down without permission. I could go on and on but you get the drift.
 
You can't DIY gas.
You can in your own home, if you do so safely/competently.
You can't DIY a lot of electrics without contacting building control.
As you know, in England there is now relatively little work (only 'new circuits', CU replacement or additions/modifications within bathroom zones) which requires any contact with Building Control.

Kind Regards, John
 
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...and one day some people might start to realise that other people have a choice as to what they do in their own houses.
I've not seen anybody attempting to deny that, or restrict any of your choices.

Have you?
 
I always thought that but apparently the law changed recently. Sadly I can't find the link now.
Ah - if there has been a recent change in the law, then I'm also unaware of it. Does anyone know anything about such a change?

Kind Regards, John
 
Depends what is meant by recently.

I haven't heard of any "law" which has been introduced "recently" disallowing what was allowed before.

I am sure this page would have been edited pdq.
https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/diy-gas.8090/
Of course, that page and the link at the bottom have only been written by 'someone', much the same as all of our infallible electrical publications.
Why do they never quote the actual law itself?

Even more of course is the fact that work should not be done by those who are incompetent or without the correct equipment and tools.
 
I haven't heard of any "law" which has been introduced "recently" disallowing what was allowed before.
As I said, same here.
I am sure this page would have been edited pdq. ... https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/diy-gas.8090/
I would certainly have thought so.

The most recent amendment to The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998 came into force less than 3 months ago (6th April 2018), and contains no mention of any change such as has been suggested, and I find it almost impossible to believe that a further amendment (of which I can find no trace) will have appeared since then.

The law requires 'competence' and this raises an issue which is common to electrical work. To undertake gas work fully competently (even in one's own home), one has to undertake various testing and, just as with electrical work, very few DIYers will have the required test kit (probably even more so than with electric test gear).

Kind Regards, John
 
It's here:

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l56.pdf

It seems they have tightened up on what is considered competent.

On page 22:

  1. Gas work should only be undertaken:
    1. (a) by a person who has successfully completed an industry- recognised training course followed by assessment of competence. Training that leads to assessment of competence in safe gas work should be recognised by the industry’s standards setting body; or

    2. (b) in the case of a currently or previously registered person, where they have proved competence through a certification scheme; or

    3. (c) for those working at premises that fall outside the scope of the Regulations (see regulation 2(4) and associated guidance), by a person who has successfully completed an appropriate full training course followed by assessment of competence.


      Looking at it again I'm not sure if this is actually law or recommendation.
 
It's here: .... http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/l56.pdf ... It seems they have tightened up on what is considered competent. Looking at it again I'm not sure if this is actually law or recommendation.
It's an 'Approved Code of Practice' (as you suggest, not 'law'), which seems to sit in relation to the law (The Gas Regs (...) 1988, as amended 2018) in the same way as BS7671 (and Approved Doc P) sits in relation to the law (Part P of Building Regs) ....
This Code has been approved by the Health and Safety Executive, with the consent of the Secretary of State. It gives practical advice on how to comply with the law. If you follow the advice you will be doing enough to comply with the law in respect of those specific matters on which the Code gives advice. You may use alternative methods to those set out in the Code in order to comply with the law.
..... This guidance is issued by the Health and Safety Executive. Following the guidance is not compulsory, unless specifically stated, and you are free to take other action. But if you do follow the guidance you will normally be doing enough to comply with the law. Health and safety inspectors seek to secure compliance with the law and may refer to this guidance.
... but there is a slight sting in the tail in this case ...
... However, the Code has a special legal status. If you are prosecuted for breach of health and safety law, and it is proved that you did not follow the relevant provisions of the Code, you will need to show that you have complied with the law in some other way or a Court will find you at fault.
The text you quote is guidance in relation to Regulation 3 of the Gas Regs (law), the latter (which requires those undertaking gas work to be 'competent') not having changed since the inception of the regs in 1988.

In terms of the present discussion, perhaps the most relevant part of the guidance is ...
83 Anyone who does work on a gas fitting or gas storage vessel must be competent to do so ..... Therefore, do-it-yourself gas engineers and those performing favours for friends and relatives all need to have the required competence. The level and range of competence should match the full extent of work done, but needs only to be sufficient for and relevant to that work.
There is scope for discussion about that but, whatever else it may be saying, it would certainly not seem (at least, not to me) to be a anything like a blanket ban on DIY gas work.

Kind Regards, John
 
You can in your own home, if you do so safely/competently

Thats good to know, I shall start getting a shortlist together of which boiler to fit. I fancy one of those all plastic Worcester Bosch jobbies :ROFLMAO:

They still use washing up liquid to test for leaks right?
 
They still use washing up liquid to test for leaks right?
The last one I watched working certainly ended up using what I assume is an expensive version of washing-up liquid in an aerosol can - the electronic gizmos are all very well for detecting that there is a gas leakage, but it seems that (if there are multiple possibilities in close proximity) determining precisely what/where is leaking apparently can require more 'tried and tested' methods!

To be more serious, though, as I said a problem common to both electrical and gas work by DIYers is that to do it properly/safely requires not only an ability to do the work (and understand what they are doing) but also testing for which very few DIYers will be adequately equipped.

Kind Regards, John
 
  1. Gas work should only be undertaken:
    1. (a) by a person who has successfully completed an industry- recognised training course followed by assessment of competence. Training that leads to assessment of competence in safe gas work should be recognised by the industry’s standards setting body; or

    2. (b) in the case of a currently or previously registered person, where they have proved competence through a certification scheme; or

    3. (c) for those working at premises that fall outside the scope of the Regulations (see regulation 2(4) and associated guidance), by a person who has successfully completed an appropriate full training course followed by assessment of competence.
  1. Electrical work should only be undertaken:
    1. (a) by a person who has successfully completed an industry- recognised training course followed by assessment of competence. Training that leads to assessment of competence in safe electrical work should be recognised by the industry’s standards setting body; or

    2. (b) in the case of a currently or previously registered person, where they have proved competence through a certification scheme; or

    3. (c) for those working at premises that fall outside the scope of the Regulations by a person who has successfully completed an appropriate full training course followed by assessment of competence.
 
... However, the Code has a special legal status. If you are prosecuted for breach of health and safety law, and it is proved that you did not follow the relevant provisions of the Code, you will need to show that you have complied with the law in some other way or a Court will find you at fault.
Does it say which law gives it that special legal status?
 

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