Loft light; confusion with wiring style

MoonMan2 · 17 Jul 2018

Risteard said:
A dimmer in the roof space? Seriously?

I saw no reason not to.

When I switch on a heater, l like to adjust the the temperature of the room to what I like.
When I switch on my TV, I adjust the sound to my preferred level, depending on my mood I guess.
When I switch on a light in my home, I prefer to have the light level I want and not being limited to the wattage level of the bulb used.

All of the lights in my home are on dimmers, except for the entrance hallway, vestibule exterior light and downstairs toilet (but that's mainly because they are on a three switch 'light switch' and I don't feel confident to upgrade to a triple dimmer switch).

I like the 'control' with dimmers and would have it no other way.

ban-all-sheds said:
Given that this appears to be a trussed roof, why do you want a light up there?

JohnW2 said:
well, there's at least some plumbing up there, which could need maintenance - not so easy in the dark or when holding a torch in one hand.

JohnW2 basically answered this for me; there is satellite TV cable, normal TV cable, plumbing and electrical cables in the loft. I have had to go up a few times to do jobs and have found it a most unpleasant place to be in.

In addition, not being able to see where you are going (unless you give up one of your hands for a torch) I find to be potentially dangerous, particularity when putting a foot wrong can send you down through the ceiling.

Having both hands free; being able to maneuver easily and being able to see clearly are all added benefits to performing work in the loft area - me thinks.

It makes me wonder why house-builders don't put loft lights in as standard. I doubt if they would get any complaints from their buying customers.

ban-all-sheds · 17 Jul 2018

MoonMan2 said:
It makes me wonder why house-builders don't put loft lights in as standard. I doubt if they would get any complaints from their buying customers.

They would were the trussed roof only strong enough to support the weight of the ceiling and a customer, enticed into the loft by lighting, caused it to suffer problems.

winston1 · 17 Jul 2018

MoonMan2 said:
Having both hands free; being able to maneuver easily and being able to see clearly are all added benefits to performing work in the loft area - me thinks.

It makes me wonder why house-builders don't put loft lights in as standard. I doubt if they would get any complaints from their buying customers.

Has it not occurred to you seeing clearly is not enhanced by dimming the lights?

As reason for builders not putting lights in the loft is it costs more.

ban-all-sheds · 17 Jul 2018

winston1 said:
Has it not occurred to you seeing clearly is not enhanced by dimming the lights?

Has it not occurred to you that dimmers have a knob on them, and by turning that knob all the way in one direction the lights will be at full brightness?

Has it not occurred to you that people can tell whether lights are bright enough?

Please give your reasons for constantly "advising" people that they will choose to leave lights too dim rather than work the control. Please show that there is some sense in it.

winston1 · 17 Jul 2018

Not all dimmers have knobs, some work by touch.

In many places including lofts a dimmed light is not bright enough so no need for a dimmer. But there are stupid people who will turn them down if they can.

ban-all-sheds · 18 Jul 2018

winston1 said:
Not all dimmers have knobs, some work by touch.

Will you please explain the logic, and the reasoning, and the sense which underpins your advice to not have any dimmer switch in a loft because some of them may be tricky to use because they work by touch.

In many places including lofts a dimmed light is not bright enough so no need for a dimmer. But there are stupid people who will turn them down if they can.

There you go again.

Will you please explain the logic, and the reasoning, and the sense which underpins your advice to not have any dimmer switch in a loft because you believe that some people will deliberately choose to turn the lights down too low in preference to having the lights bright enough. Where is the evidence which shows that this is a genuine concern, and that you are not writing utter nonsense?

securespark · 18 Jul 2018

MoonMan2 said:
(unless you give up one of your hands for a torch)

Head torches are great!

ban-all-sheds · 18 Jul 2018

Just don't go too far...

EFLImpudence · 18 Jul 2018

Ah. Good ol' Arthur.

Those were the days.

ban-all-sheds · 18 Jul 2018

Couldn't do it now. Bleedin elf&safety gone mad, I tell you.

ban-all-sheds · 18 Jul 2018

I've often wondered how many people pick that song for their funeral, if they're being cremated, timed for the "you're gonna burn, burn, burn, burn, burn, burn, burn, burn, burn, burn, burn, burn..." and maniacal screaming to accompany the coffin sliding away....

Risteard · 18 Jul 2018

ban-all-sheds said:
Will you please explain the logic, and the reasoning, and the sense which underpins your advice to not have any dimmer switch in a loft because some of them may be tricky to use because they work by touch.

There you go again.

Will you please explain the logic, and the reasoning, and the sense which underpins your advice to not have any dimmer switch in a loft because you believe that some people will deliberately choose to turn the lights down too low in preference to having the lights bright enough. Where is the evidence which shows that this is a genuine concern, and that you are not writing utter nonsense?

Do you really need an explanation as to why it is imbecilic to have a dimmer switch in the roof space?

ban-all-sheds · 18 Jul 2018

If you have one which does not revolve around you deciding that people will deliberately choose to leave the lights too dim, then go for it.

If not, then feel free to write a nonsense explanation.

MoonMan2 · 18 Jul 2018

winston1 said:
Has it not occurred to you seeing clearly is not enhanced by dimming the lights?

ban-all-sheds said:
Has it not occurred to you [winston1] that people can tell whether lights are bright enough?

winston1 said:
In many places including lofts a dimmed light is not bright enough so no need for a dimmer. But there are stupid people who will turn them down if they can.

Risteard said:
Do you really need an explanation as to why it is imbecilic to have a dimmer switch in the roof space?

If I may explain further my reasons for installing a dimmer switch in my loft:

You'll see from the photos that there are water tanks just below where the bulbs hang. At that short distance from the lights, the light light level falling on the tanks would be considerably brighter than at some corner of the loft. Therefore if working on the tanks it would be more comfortable on the eye to reduce the light level to an extent that would take away the 'gleam'. That may only be a 30% reduction in light level but nevertheless still added value.

If working on areas further away from the lighting then yes, it would make more sense to have the bulbs on near or full brightness. As I'm sure we all know; light level decreases by the square of the distance. (ie for every unit of distance (feet or meters) away from the source, the light level decays by that distance squared)

I also use my loft for some basic storage, which means I just have to pop my head up from the ladders to access some areas around the hatch. With the light that is already coming in from the top floor landing below, I only require to put the loft lights to around 50% to see what I need to see.

So I guess its down to comfort of light level/necessary light level and also reducing running costs where possible.

winston1 said:
As reason for builders not putting lights in the loft is it costs more.

I think light lofts should be put in for health and well-being reasons. Do you remember the days when plugs didn't come with electrical appliances because "it costs more"?

JohnW2 · 18 Jul 2018

MoonMan2 said:
I think light lofts should be put in for health and well-being reasons. Do you remember the days when plugs didn't come with electrical appliances because "it costs more"?

I don't think that was the only reason. There was a substantial period of time during which more than one type of socket was fairly common in the UK - so, even if appliances had come with fitted plugs, they would not have been suitable for a good number of people.

... not to mention that fitted plugs would have undermined one of the Boy Scouts' 'badges' of that era

Kind Regards, John

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Loft light; confusion with wiring style

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