18th 544.1.2

Right Alan, i think you need to read the 18th reg, i believe you was mislead like i was back in the day by the reg in section 54 .
This reg has now been rewritten including the words Extraneous, so clearly defines what the others are saying.
 
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333rocky333 said:
Right Alan, i think you need to read the 18th reg, i believe you was mislead like i was back in the day by the reg in section 54 . This reg has now been rewritten including the words Extraneous, so clearly defines what the others are saying.
However it still states if theres an insulating section, bond consumer side, which is what baffles me as that would NOT be an Extraneous part, so I am still assuming they want that bonded for another reason.
Click to expand...
No, I don't think it says that. That's the same mistake which I made when I first read it ...

... it now talks about "...a meter, isolation point or union ..." and I mistakenly initially thought that "isolation point" meant the same as "insulating section" in 17th. However, it was pointed out to me that it probably just means (metal) 'gas tap' (to use non-gasman's terminology!).

Kind Regards, John
 
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I have not seen a copy of the 18th besides they are not in force until January. Agreed they can be used already and probably the past six months so noway can they explain current installations compleated for the many years until now.
 
A explaination of the current regs, the way I interpret them, and the way things seem to have been done and why. (Every quote from 17th edition - yellow. For wiring regs.)

Firstly what is meant by an equipotential zone?
According to On Site Guide
Equipotential bonding. Electrical connection maintaining various exposed-conductive-parts at substantially the same potential. (See also Protective equipotential bonding.)
Click to expand...

Me: Sinply states metalwork Forget what any pipe contains or is used for it is metalwork same for the iron metalwork used in the building construction (provided it is exposed which normally it isn't in a domestic property)

What Main Protective Conductors are required:
OSG-2.pdf

Metallic installation pipes
Metallic gas installation pipes
Other installation pipes e.g. oil
+
+

Next bit refers to pipework burried in the screed of a floor at ground level. Common pratice for central heating pipes, hot/cold water pipes and gas pipes. in which case they would need to be in a metallic duct which may well be in electrical contact with the gas pipe it encloses.

If pipes are metallic they would normally be considered as extraneous-conductive-parts. So that includs central heating and hot/cold water supplies.

Me: There seems to be no mention of where these pipes or the 'metalwork', which forms the pipes either originate from or end finally up.

Central heating radiators must be considered exposed-conductive-parts. They are however conneced electrically to the metal pipework and so are in effect bonded.


I think that takes care of why I believe internal pipework needs bonding. Simply says it needs to be. I cannot see any situations included where exclusions to above mean the requirements don't apply neither are any calculations shown.

Forget where those connection need to be applied for the moment.
 

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AlanE said:
Central heating radiators must be considered exposed-conductive-parts.
Click to expand...

? Not sure about that.
supplementary bonding if needed, main bonding and Earthing are 3 seperate things, each with there own regs.
Exposed conductive parts are not the same as EXTRANEOUS conductive parts.

Dont that OSG just confirm what the others say
 
A explaination of the current regs, the way I interpret them, and the way things seem to have been done and why. (Every quote from 17th edition - yellow. For wiring regs.)
Firstly what is meant by an equipotential zone?
According to On Site Guide.
Not the best publication. It is a worst case scenario guide. I don't have one.
Me: Sinply states metalwork Forget what any pipe contains or is used for it is metalwork same for the iron metalwork used in the building construction (provided it is exposed which normally it isn't in a domestic property)
That is where you are going wrong. It greatly depends on what they are used for - spoons are metal.

What Main Protective Conductors are required:
OSG-2.pdf
Metallic installation pipes
Metallic gas installation pipes
Other installation pipes e.g. oil
+
+
Only IF, IF. IF they are extraneous-c-ps - generally means originating outside.

Next bit refers to pipework burried in the screed of a floor at ground level. Common pratice for central heating pipes, hot/cold water pipes and gas pipes. in which case they would need to be in a metallic duct which may well be in electrical contact with the gas pipe it encloses.
If pipes are metallic they would normally be considered as extraneous-conductive-parts. So that includs central heating and hot/cold water supplies.
Yes, IF they go into the ground. I would disagree with common for CH.

Me: There seems to be no mention of where these pipes or the 'metalwork', which forms the pipes either originate from or end finally up.
Then that is a mistake unless it just refers to extraneous-c-ps.
Have seen file and they do refer to e-c-ps
You do have to work things out for yourself. The regulations are not a step by ster construction manual.

Central heating radiators must be considered exposed-conductive-parts.
No. The pipes might be.
They are however conneced electrically to the metal pipework and so are in effect bonded.
No, that would be EARTHED.
If you have moved to supplementary bonding then that might be required BECAUSE they are EARTHED.

I think that takes care of why I believe internal pipework needs bonding. Simply says it needs to be. I cannot see any situations included where exclusions to above mean the requirements don't apply neither are any calculations shown.
More revision - or first time learning - required
 
AlanE said:
A explaination of the current regs, the way I interpret them, and the way things seem to have been done and why. (Every quote from 17th edition - yellow. For wiring regs.) ... Firstly what is meant by an equipotential zone? ... According to On Site Guide
Equipotential bonding. Electrical connection maintaining various exposed-conductive-parts at substantially the same potential. (See also Protective equipotential bonding.)
Click to expand...
Me: Sinply states metalwork Forget what any pipe contains or is used for it is metalwork same for the iron metalwork used in the building construction (provided it is exposed which normally it isn't in a domestic property)
Click to expand...
That is an extremely odd (and very incomplete) definition of equipotential bonding. It is talking only about maintaining exposed-conductive-parts at the same potential, and if you look at the definition of exposed-c-ps, you will see that it only relates to parts of (electrical) equipment - not even extraneous-c-ps, let alone 'metalwork in general.

Despite the fact that it is authored by the IET, the OSG contains some very odd statements.

For anyone who actually wants to understand about main bonding, I would suggest that they should initially forget about regulations and just consider the electrical concept and purpose of main equipotential bonding - which, as I keep saying, is essentially to prevent anything touchable within a property being at true earth potential (which could, under certain fault conditions, be a very different potential from all the other 'earthed' (to the electrical installation's MET) metal within the property. Once one understands that, it should be apparent what does, and does not, need main bonding - and then one can decide whether various regulations do or not correctly reflect what actually needs to be done in the interests of the safety of those within the building.

Kind Regards, John
 
Exposed conductive part is a part of equipment which can be touched and which is not normally live , but which can become live under fault conditions
 
333rocky333 said:
Exposed conductive part is a part of equipment which can be touched and which is not normally live , but which can become live under fault conditions
Click to expand...
It's usually me, but on this occasion it is you who needs to improve your typing speed :)

Kind Regards, John
 
upload_2018-10-20_19-7-49.png


I will admit it would be better if it said "Examples of parts which MIGHT be e-c-ps are:"

but it REALLY, REALLY does mean only IF those parts ARE e-c-ps.
 
JohnW2 said:
It's usually me, but on this occasion it is you who needs to improve your typing speed :)

Kind Regards, John
Click to expand...
I had to check I was right first :)
My 1 finger typings rubbish, then i have to try and edit the spelling and grammar mistakes.
Me and Alan are in Essex remember.
 
upload_2018-10-20_19-7-49-png.150662


Is that what ALAN posted, surely thats like shooting hisself in the foot!
 
D

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