Worried about Builders Work

wessex101 · 9 Apr 2019

It is not a matter of "the builder" requiring specialist expert knowledge of the Building Regulations. The legal test is should an average competent tradesman know that building an extension to a residential property should comply with the Building Regulations? I would suggest that that puts the duty of care squarely on the builder's shoulders, especially if the customer is a member of the public with no expectation of knowledge of the Building Regulations.

There might be certain factors which make it exempt from the Building Regulations such as it being a porch or a conservatory but I would expect an average tradesman has a duty of care to flag that up and get the customer to get it confirmed.

My recollection of breaches of the Building Regulations is within 6 months of the work legal action is taken against the builder, after 6 months action is taken against the property owner. Although I think formal action is extremely rare unless the work is deemed to be dangerous. Building Control seem to rely on refusing to sign off work that does not comply as their only sanction and leave the homeowner to sort out the mess.

noseall · 9 Apr 2019

wessex101 said:
The legal test is should an average competent tradesman know that building an extension to a residential property should comply with the Building Regulations?

The extension may well comply with building regulations. It does not alter the fact that the homeowner is responsible for seeking BR approval/inspections etc.

Whoever carries out the building work should be responsible for ensuring that the work is compliant with the Building Regulations.

However, responsibility ultimately lies with the building owner, who may be served a notice if work doesn't comply with the Building Regulations.

^woody^ · 9 Apr 2019

I've just got Dave from around the corner to look at my bunion because he's got some medical experience (first aider or something, I've not checked) and he does chiropody part time.

Anyway he says I need my foot chopping off and I don't need anesthetic.

Seems legit to me, and I won't bother checking because he should know what he's talking about.

A_Novice · 9 Apr 2019

There needs to be much stricter regulations for builders, designers and building control for that matter.

There isn't enough protection for Joe public who doesn't know the ins and outs of the building trade.

jock194 · 9 Apr 2019

I am not sure your comparison regarding bunions is very helpful The fact of the matter is this was a Ltd Company with vans with their company name blazoned across them and well known in the village so it is not unreasonable to take their advice and then when things go wrong say the builder is not at fault. He knew damn well there should have been building regs but he wanted to get this up for a quick turnaround and yes its my fault for not looking into this properly but I was not aware of the regulations that is why I asked the builder about any planning or regulations i would need and yes its my fault for trusting a builder who stated I didn't need them because I had a structure already there obviously from your analogy builders are untrustworthy and should not be regarded as competent in judging whether a building should have building regs or not and why should they care they just build and are not responsible. Very sad outlook on an industry.

Leofric · 9 Apr 2019

jock194 said:
Very sad outlook on an industry.

You can't tar all builders with the same brush , a reputable competent builder wouldn't have allowed this situation to develop.
Another case, unfortunately , proving that you should always have drawings prepared by a competent person who will obtain the necessary approvals before any building work starts on site.

noseall · 10 Apr 2019

A_Novice said:
There needs to be much stricter

No there does not. What we have is fine and is enforced adequately.

A_Novice said:
There isn't enough protection for Joe public who doesn't know the ins and outs of the building trade.

Lol. Everyone has access to the internet these days. Joe public is quick to use the information readily available when it suits him then plead ignorance when it does not.

Oh look, the O.P. complained on an internet site.

A_Novice · 10 Apr 2019

I'm going through the process now so am quite aware of what certain individuals (builders, designers and building control) get up to.

To say everything is fine and enforced adequately is laughable. Unfortunately the credible skilled individuals on this site are few and far between in my experience.

You are contradicting yourself. You are saying everything is enforced correctly yet people have to use the internet to find out the facts rather than being able to take the word of a "professional" lol

noseall said:
No there does not. What we have is fine and is enforced adequately.

Lol. Everyone has access to the internet these days. Joe public is quick to use the information readily available when it suits him then plead ignorance when it does not.

Oh look, the O.P. complained on an internet site.

noseall · 10 Apr 2019

A_Novice said:
I'm going through the process now so am quite aware

Yes, my 36 years of working non-stop in the building trade with fellow trades, architects, inspectors means I am also aware and up to speed.

A_Novice said:
in my experience.

You obviously have little experience.

A_Novice said:
You are contradicting yourself. You are saying everything is enforced correctly yet people have to use the internet to find out the facts rather than being able to take the word of a "professional" lol

Whether people chose to seek that which is readily available to them is up to the individual and whether they can be bothered to use their fat fingers to find out - or their mouths. Some folk would rather just save the few hundred quid.

No contradiction there boyo.

A_Novice · 10 Apr 2019

noseall said:
Yes, my 36 years of working non-stop in the building trade with fellow trades, architects, inspectors means I am also aware and up to speed.

You obviously have little experience.

Whether people chose to seek that which is readily available to them is up to the individual and whether they can be bothered to use their fat fingers to find out - or their mouths.

No contradiction there boyo.

36 years and you don't think there is any room for improvement. wow.

You are right I have little experience just like other Joe Publics. We rely on people such as yourself for professional advice.

The bottom line is the OP should have been able to trust the builder. The internet hasn't always been around.

Mottie · 10 Apr 2019

About 15 years ago I had plans drawn up by an architect, submitted and passed for a 1m single story front extension to my house. My mate was a builder and said he'd help me out. He looked at the plans came round to help me dig the footings. While doing so, we came across a series of clay pipes butted end to end going across the corner of the footings and he said I’d best get building control round to look at them. They came round and said it was just a land drain and that I could bridge the footings with a length of plastic pipe. He then said I must stop the building works though because I didn’t have plans approved. Yes I have, I told him and produced the approved plans. Great he said, now where’s the building regs approval. My mate called me all sorts of pillocks and I had to get back onto the architect to do them before I could continue. I knew absolutely nothing about plans etc but I should have had some concerns when even I noticed that the first set of plans he provided showed footings 0.5m deep and 1m wide! Anyway, perhaps the OP has made a similar mistake? My mate assumed I had building regs approval and the architect forgot. Still down to me though.

^woody^ · 10 Apr 2019

jock194 said:
obviously from your analogy builders are untrustworthy

If that's how you interpret it then you could also interpret it as analogous to all clients are thick.

However in the real world, the analogy is that you can't rely on any expert in one field (ie building) being an expert in another (building regulations). And there is big diference to a statement based on opinion (from a non-expert) and one based on actual knowledge (from an expert).

It's your responsibility to conform to building regualtions and you can't rely on a builder to advise about building regulations. It's really that simple.

wessex101 · 10 Apr 2019

^woody^ said:
It's your responsibility to conform to building regualtions and you can't rely on a builder to advise about building regulations. It's really that simple.

No it isn't. The OP clearly stated that the builder told them they did not need Building Regulations approval as the extension was replacing an existing smaller structure. If the builder took it upon himself to give advice on Building Regulations he takes on that duty of care.

Leofric · 10 Apr 2019

Motman said:
About 15 years ago I had plans drawn up by an architect, submitted and passed for a 1m single story front extension to my house. My mate was a builder and said he'd help me out. He looked at the plans came round to help me dig the footings. While doing so, we came across a series of clay pipes butted end to end going across the corner of the footings and he said I’d best get building control round to look at them. They came round and said it was just a land drain and that I could bridge the footings with a length of plastic pipe. He then said I must stop the building works though because I didn’t have plans approved. Yes I have, I told him and produced the approved plans. Great he said, now where’s the building regs approval. My mate called me all sorts of pillocks and I had to get back onto the architect to do them before I could continue. I knew absolutely nothing about plans etc but I should have had some concerns when even I noticed that the first set of plans he provided showed footings 0.5m deep and 1m wide! Anyway, perhaps the OP has made a similar mistake? My mate assumed I had building regs approval and the architect forgot. Still down to me though.

'I had plans drawn up by an architect, submitted and passed -He then said I must stop the building works though because I didn’t have plans approved.-
I had to get back onto the architect to do them before I could continue.-the architect forgot.'

That doesn't make sense , the architect forgot what ?
It is normal for foundations to be discussed on site with building control when a trial hole has been dug.

tomfe · 10 Apr 2019

Leofric said:
'I That doesn't make sense , the architect forgot what ?.

Probably planning permission Vs building regs.

Many people believe that builders should know the legalities in the field they are working in. If they are unsure then they should give advice on how to get a correct answer, ask the council, get a legal advice etc

If I take my car into the garage and they say I need new wheel bearings then I would not then go and approach a bearing specialist and get a second opinion.

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Worried about Builders Work

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