Broken sump pump? Tripping the electrics.

A Bilge pump is a pump used in a boat or a ship to pump out the bilges at the bottom of the boat where all the water collects.

The accessible switch was a very sensible thing to install, as you probably found - you were able to isolate the pump when it repeatedly tripped all your sockets. Is it/does it trip the MCB instantly when the pump is switched on, or is there a slight delay? Delay could mean the pumps impeller (the twirly bit which spins in the water) is simply jammed or seized with a pebble.
 
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So the manual on/off switch is in a room above the pump and there is no alarm or any other box of any kind below the floor but it is not wired on its own individual circuit- Yes?
Time to remove the tank with the pump inside (Tank is the new word for bucket/ housing ok?).
One Q- How high is the water level now since the pump is not pumping any water away.
 
You are supplying a lot more information as the post develops. Firstly you seem to have established it is the pump that is faulty so all you need is a replacement & the wiring to it should not need any attention as regulations will not apply retrospectively.
More importantly you say the problem is an every day thing & that would be a concern to me. I know you have had various surveys done but it really should be just a seasonal problem ( periods of high rainfall ) as flooding at this time of year indicate a water or sewage leak or even an underground spring running near the property. I would have thought there is a risk of damage to the foundations if it is constantly soaked. I can't really advise on how to solve that problem though, I would think you need more extensive investigations. You have mentioned that other nearby properties suffer from similar problems so perhaps talking to local council building control or environmental health dept. might help.
 
If and when a new pump is installed, it might be worth getting one with a longer float switch cable and setting this to a longer length so that the water level has to rise further before activating the pump... This would make the pump operate less frequently and, if your footings and sleeper walls are correctly built (to cope with the ground conditions) it should do no harm to the construction.

Can you not fit a float switch that starts pump when water is few inches high?

 
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A Bilge pump is a pump used in a boat or a ship to pump out the bilges at the bottom of the boat where all the water collects.
If we're talking about pumping out crap then right at the very start when we had various guys out looking at the issue i was advised more than once to not do that. The feedback was to have the water pumped out, yes, but pumping out the ground (all that sludge down there you see in the photo) is a bad idea. Obviously in a 'normal' house that'd be dirt, not sludge.
I've seen next doors house as before they moved in the people who bought it to sell on were having work done too - they also had a pump installed so they have the same issue. Speaking to those who were renting it before the purchase we were told that their house in the most extreme case had the water coming high enough to make the carpet wet, but they did say that our house wasn't as bad as that (in that the water didn't penetrate the floorboards).

The accessible switch was a very sensible thing to install, as you probably found - you were able to isolate the pump when it repeatedly tripped all your sockets. Is it/does it trip the MCB instantly when the pump is switched on, or is there a slight delay? Delay could mean the pumps impeller (the twirly bit which spins in the water) is simply jammed or seized with a pebble.
I'm clueless but not that clueless, i know what an impeller is :p
I'd say it was pretty instant. As soon as i shouted for my wife to turn it on the MCB tripped. She said that she heard the initial 'clunk' that the pump does when it starts to kick in (don't get hung up on the word clunk, it's just how i'm describing the noise it makes when it starts to do its thing - the noise wasn't anything out of the ordinary) but then it just stopped and all this took like half a second tops so i'd say pretty instant.
So the manual on/off switch is in a room above the pump and there is no alarm or any other box of any kind below the floor but it is not wired on its own individual circuit- Yes?
Correct.
The on/off switch is not just in a room above the pump but in the room above the pump. The power cable wasn't the longest in the world at all.
Time to remove the tank with the pump inside (Tank is the new word for bucket/ housing ok?).
One Q- How high is the water level now since the pump is not pumping any water away.
To get anywhere near the pump now everything would obviously have to come up, we'd need to hire a pump to pump the built up water outside - so all this will probably now be done when the spark comes out.
As for how high is the water level, i would guess at its natural level of about 6 bricks high on a 9 brick high wall. My carpet is still dry for now, that's the main thing :)

You are supplying a lot more information as the post develops.
Like i say, i wont hit everything first time. There'll be plenty that i a) wont think to look at b) wont know what its called - so wont know how to describe it properly c)didn't realise etc etc so as i say, just ask and i'll do my best :)

More importantly you say the problem is an every day thing & that would be a concern to me. I know you have had various surveys done but it really should be just a seasonal problem ( periods of high rainfall ) as flooding at this time of year indicate a water or sewage leak or even an underground spring running near the property.
We have been told by a number of people including the surveyors that there is an underground spring here (folk have used different words for it over the time but basically the ground that these houses are built on is wet). It's wet in winter, it's wet in summer. It's wet all the way round the year.
The houses were built in 1932, or at least ours was. I'd imagine it must surely have been wet then too. Perhaps that's why the crawl space is 1mtr high, who knows? Actually i think it's a tad over 1mtr but not much.
On a day like today which is pretty warm & dry & is another warm & dry day on the back of a number of warm & dry days, the water will still come up through the ground and if the pump was working it'd kick in/activate/work approx every 10 minutes give or take.
But if it's belting it down then that 10 minutes will get less & less. The longer it rains heavy for the more the time between pumps is reduced.
87 years on the house is still standing, no signs of subsidence. I'm no expert so i could very well be wrong but maybe the house was built with full knowledge of the problem & that the foundations are sound.
I did get in touch with the council some years ago who put me through to the department who in the end told me what i mentioned earlier.

We bought the house with a view to never moving but this alone does admittedly make us think about that. Aside from that we like the house & the location etc but this is a bit of a nuisance.
 
Thanks for that explanation. It must cost a fair bit in trickary with all of that continuous pumping out? I do wonder how they coped in 1932 with sump pumps not so common as now?

Might having a sump outside of the house and its foundations work? It would drain away the groundwater before it got in.

Before retiring I looked after the needs of a banking chain. Quite a few had basement water ingress issues and in the old days they were built with strongrooms in their basements. One of the smaller banks in the Dales was fairly modern above ground, but built atop a very old original cellar area. Running through which was an actual constantly following stream.
 
Are you on mains drains or septic tank? If the former have you thought of a large soaraway connected to the mains sewers. It might be initially more expensive but save money in the long run. What sort of property & location do you have?
 
How high is the ground level outside and how deep are any surface water drains outside?

Reason I ask that, if it were my house and I couldn’t find where the water was coming from, i’d be looking to fit a gully and let gravity run the water out into a drain.

I did one at a house next to a canal, there was over a foot of water under the house and a constant flow of water in from the front. Turned out there was a blocked gully under the floor and that ran out into the canal.
 
Thanks for that explanation. It must cost a fair bit in trickary with all of that continuous pumping out? I do wonder how they coped in 1932 with sump pumps not so common as now?
The electricity bill isn't so bad. The numerous fish tanks will cost more i'm sure.
Who knows (regards 1932). I can only assume that their viewpoint then was in line with the drainage surveyor guy (i forget his title now, i'd have to find the email but something to do with drainage) - in that a pump is more for piece of mind, providing the water doesn't come in to contact with the timber floor.

Obviously the moisture had an effect on the original plastering but 80 odd years on the house still stands.
Or perhaps, once upon a time, the pump was installed by a previous owner because they had exceptionally bad rainfall and the water level came that high that it soaked their living room. Who knows.
There was no indication of this when we bought the house. Any previous flooding was no. No mention of a pump.
I thought it would've been mentioned by now but i'll address it anyway - no the survey didn't pick it up though we also didn't go for the top whack survey (our error). We were given an option of 3 and went for middle of park. There was a possibility of suing the previous owners but at £209 per hour plus other charges for other things (such as £50 per letter or whatever it was) with no guarantee of getting any money at the end of it we opted to spend the time and money on managing the issue.

Might having a sump outside of the house and its foundations work? It would drain away the groundwater before it got in.
For this to happen i imagine you'd have to dig up our drive which already slopes a fair bit back from the road before it's in line with the air bricks which then there's about a 1mtr drop from as well to get in line with the base of the crawl space and then you'd need to dig it down even further to make it lower.
And then build it back up again & pave it again.

We simply don't have that cash unfortunately.

Are you on mains drains or septic tank? If the former have you thought of a large soaraway connected to the mains sewers. It might be initially more expensive but save money in the long run. What sort of property & location do you have?
* Mains drains
* as i just said to Harry - unfortunately we don't have that cash
* Semi detached & Lancashire

How high is the ground level outside and how deep are any surface water drains outside?

Reason I ask that, if it were my house and I couldn’t find where the water was coming from, i’d be looking to fit a gully and let gravity run the water out into a drain.
I'm not sure how much the drive drops from top to bottom but as said, the crawl space is a 1mtr drop.

I wonder how far down you'd need to dig & even then i wonder if you'd ever find out.

One of our neighbours who's lived here for about 200 years was telling us that the reason everyone has paved back gardens is because beforehand they were just bogland (so it's not just limited to under my living room floor in other words). They all got built up & paved. Our joined on neighbour must be about the only one with grass and that's incredibly soft on warm dry days like today but even when it rains a little it's just total bogland.
 
If there are manholes or if your gully’s have access points it would be easy to find the line and depth of any drains.

Where about in Lancashire?
 
Our joined on neighbour must be about the only one with grass and that's incredibly soft on warm dry days like today but even when it rains a little it's just total bogland.

Here is not that much better, clay just a few inches down, so nowhere for the rain water to get away, so it turns into a bog if there is prolonged rain. This past winter has been exceptionally dry, we never saw mud brought in by our two border collies. I often have to erect a temporary fence, when it is a mess out there, just to force them to vary their routes around the garden.

Even if water has not risen up to your woodwork, that amount of water will increase the moisture in the atmosphere down there which could cause condensation and rot. Ian's suggestion of looking to work out the location and depth of the drains is an especially good one, you might even be able to run a drainage pipe from under your house, down to the drain and avoid the need to use a pump at all.
 

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