Replacing ceiling lamp holder - which wire goes where?

DIYNotIan · 1 Jun 2019

Hi all

I've got a knackered ceiling lamp holder I want to change. It's the type with no flex - the lamp holder is directly on the ceiling mount. But the new one I want to put in will be rose-flex-lamp holder.

There are no markings on the old one I'm replacing. So what's the easiest way to work out which wire goes where on the new rose? Do I need to trace back to see which is the mains supply and which is the light switch? Or is there a standard layout or some other way to tell? It's a two way light, and had two reds and one black wire connected.

Cheers

donrkebab · 1 Jun 2019

You a have "batten holder" and you want to replace it with a "ceiling rose" and "flex" to a "pendant lampholder"

The wiring seems a bit strange, can you expose the cable/s and post a pic?.

Taylortwocities · 1 Jun 2019

What wires do you have coming out of the ceiling? Photo please.
Did you take a photo of the arrangement before you disconnected them?

DIYNotIan · 1 Jun 2019

Hi chaps

Thanks for the replies and help. Yes, I took note and colour coded (hence the tape) before disconnecting so that if I didn't know how to wire in the new ceiling rose I could put the batten holder back in place for the time being (thanks for the nomenclature tips donrkebab

).

So here's how it looked with the wires attached. If that's not enough to go by, I can trace in the loft...

Cheers

donrkebab · 1 Jun 2019

As I suspected, looks very dodgy ie dangerous.

The earth wires have not been connected, and you have what looks like a borrowed live or a borrowed neutral and that is potentially dangerous. Unfortunately, you need an electrician to sort this out.

oldbutnotdead · 1 Jun 2019

That's very odd for a batten holder, there are usually only 2 phase connectors (L and N). Or is that the back of a pull switch?

Re the earths, unless you have a multimeter & know how to use it you won't be able to prove they are connected at the other end so don't do anything with them (long as your new fitting is plastic you can live without them).

As for the rest, if you can safely trace and identify, sketch a schematic and post it.

donrkebab · 1 Jun 2019

oldbutnotdead said:
That's very odd for a batten holder, there are usually only 2 phase connectors (L and N).

There's nothing odd about, that is a standard batten holder, and that pattern has been around for many years

oldbutnotdead said:
Or is that the back of a pull switch?

It looks nothing like the back of a pull switch

oldbutnotdead said:
Re the earths, unless you have a multimeter & know how to use it you won't be able to prove they are connected at the other end so don't do anything with them (long as your new fitting is plastic you can live without them)..

And what if at the other end of those cables junction points, none of the other earths are connected? What if there are metallic fittings at the end of those cables? Your advice is irresponsible and dangerous.

To the op, Unfortunately, you need an electrician to sort this out.

oldbutnotdead · 1 Jun 2019

donrkebab said:
There's nothing odd about, that is a standard batten holder, and that pattern has been around for many years

Fair dos on that one, i've always bought cheapies or ones with the loop terminals in the base

donrkebab said:
It looks nothing like the back of a pull switch

No it doesn't but it is wired as one would be- the wiring on that lampholder doesn't make sense to me

donrkebab said:
And what if at the other end of those cables junction points, none of the other earths are connected? What if there are metallic fittings at the end of those cables? Your advice is irresponsible and dangerous.

And what if my uncle had tits? He'd be my aunt. You don't know what is at the other end of those cables, neither do I. Why wind up the OP?

donrkebab said:
To the op, Unfortunately, you need an electrician to sort this out.

OP- your wiring is fairly old (at least 14 years, probably a lot more). Has an EICR ever been carried out on it? (There might be an inspection sticker on the CU with a date). Lighting outlets without earths were outlawed some time ago but changes in the regs are not restrospective and as long as you don't start putting metal light fittings up you'll be OK. As before, if you can safely trace the cables back to their next ports of call (and back to the CU) and post a schematic we might be in with a chance.

donrkebab · 1 Jun 2019

oldbutnotdead said:
You don't know what is at the other end of those cables, neither do I.

I know that's why I pointed it out to you after you advised - "Re the earths (long as your new fitting is plastic you can live without them)", I'm trying to prevent you giving dangerous advice, based on your lack of thought and guesswork.

oldbutnotdead said:
Why wind up the OP?

Very weird understanding of english, it is not winding someone up to point out potential dangers, and I find it quite incredible that someone thinks that amounts to a wind up.

oldbutnotdead said:
Lighting outlets without earths were outlawed some time ago but changes in the regs are not restrospective and as long as you don't start putting metal light fittings up you'll be OK.

And you still persist in giving dangerous advice, what about metallic accessories?

oldbutnotdead said:
we might be in with a chance.

With you giving advice, the only "chance" is that someone will get injured.

To the op, Unfortunately, you need an electrician to sort this out.

donrkebab · 1 Jun 2019

oldbutnotdead said:
And what if my uncle had tits? He'd be my aunt.

You've got that saying wrong as well, and you've made it nonsensical because both aunts and uncles have tits, correct saying is " If my aunt had balls, she would have been my uncle"

ban-all-sheds · 2 Jun 2019

DIYNotIan said:
There are no markings on the old one I'm replacing.

Definitely no markings on this terminal?

DIYNotIan · 2 Jun 2019

Thanks for all the replies and input.

ban-all-sheds - even with yournicely coloured circles I still can't see it!!?! Where exactly should I be looking? Sorry if I'm being blind, which I'm sure I am.

I am going to get an electrican to check it out but in the meantime I'm curious to discuss it further just out of interest.

Firstly - what I failed to add to the original post was that not only is it a 2-way (as in connected to two switches), but it also shares those switches with another light. So in other words, there are two lights in the landing. And there are two switches - one at each end - which operate these two lights. I'm sure that's easier to describe if you're familiar with the correct terminology but I'm not unfortunately! Feel free to fill me in donrkebab

Like I said, I'll get this checked out and won't meddle where I shouldn't. But I'm still curious so any thoughts would be interesting.

Cheers

EFLImpudence · 2 Jun 2019

DIYNotIan said:
but it also shares those switches with another light.

No it doesn't. Two (or more) switches side by side on a faceplate are two (or more) separate switches. They have no shared parts.

donrkebab · 2 Jun 2019

DIYNotIan said:
Feel free to fill me in donrkebab

I will decline that offer, thank you

donrkebab · 2 Jun 2019

So you have two lights controlled by 2x2way switches, and I appreciate you want to sort this out, but you can't because what I said earlier must be sorted out first.

donrkebab said:
As I suspected, looks very dodgy ie dangerous.

The earth wires have not been connected, and you have what looks like a borrowed live or a borrowed neutral and that is potentially dangerous. Unfortunately, you need an electrician to sort this out.

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Replacing ceiling lamp holder - which wire goes where?

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