Sadiq Khan't

There is just over 10% of the prison population that are foreign criminals, they should deport them and we would have more room for home grown criminals. Freedom of movement has had an effect on the number of foreign criminals, as well as some good things, but even scrapping FOM wont stop criminals entering the country. There was a case in the news yesterday, a Romanian was caught stealing 3 days after entering the country (legally, as he was seeing a friend who was "giving him a job"), he also wants to stay after his sentence, shouldn't be an option. Harsher sentences for violent crimes, community service for petty crimes like shoplifting under a certain amount, the problem is , with legal aid the cost to the government, well us really, is so high that cases usually dropped before they start. So what is the answer ? Death penalty for murder or child rape would be a start.

sodthisforfun said:

but is that luvvy duvvly liberals fault or the fact the prisons are full, badly run, had their budgets slashed, prisons closing and it's an excellent way to save money?

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IMHO, it is not an "OR" situation; both contribute to the current situation.

Brigadier said:

IMHO, it is not an "OR" situation; both contribute to the current situation.

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True.
But the bottom line has to be budget. Take away budgets from all these services and there's problems.

Ihavenojob said:

There is just over 10% of the prison population that are foreign criminals, they should deport them and we would have more room for home grown criminals. Freedom of movement has had an effect on the number of foreign criminals, as well as some good things, but even scrapping FOM wont stop criminals entering the country. There was a case in the news yesterday, a Romanian was caught stealing 3 days after entering the country (legally, as he was seeing a friend who was "giving him a job"), he also wants to stay after his sentence, shouldn't be an option. Harsher sentences for violent crimes, community service for petty crimes like shoplifting under a certain amount, the problem is , with legal aid the cost to the government, well us really, is so high that cases usually dropped before they start. So what is the answer ? Death penalty for murder or child rape would be a start.

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Cases have always been thrown out by the courts if realistically no chance of conviction - to save money.
I don't have a problem with the more serious criminals being deported. Harsher sentences for more serious crimes, absolutely. Death penatly, no. Murder, child rape should mean they don't get out of prison or until they're so old they can't do any damage ever again imo, but not the death penalty.

But this all costs money, money for the police to have the resources/manpower so they get all the evidence for an airtight conviction, money for the courts, money for the prisons and to build new prisons that we need. Without funding, forget it and that's down to the government.

Notch7 said:

Its probably because there arent enough police to catch criminals and not enough capacity in prisons to house them.

I expect Andy11 blames that on the loony left

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Are you turning left now?

Bodd said:

Are you turning left now?

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Not really.

Before having any interest in politics I just voted conservative -I did grew up in stockbroker belt and had mates that became rich from the growth of the stockmarket. Remember 'loads of money'.

I generally prefer the idea of less state control rather than more, but the current crop of Tories are just a dreadful self serving bunch.

UK politics is so bad, Im not sure who there is to vote for.

Its a shame as there are MPs that are doung good things with good ideas.

Notch7 said:

Not really.

Before having any interest in politics I just voted conservative -I did grew up in stockbroker belt and had mates that became rich from the growth of the stockmarket. Remember 'loads of money'.

I generally prefer the idea of less state control rather than more, but the current crop of Tories are just a dreadful self serving bunch.

UK politics is so bad, Im not sure who there is to vote for.

Its a shame as there are MPs that are doung good things with good ideas.

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I can't believe anyone gets into politics other than to do good.
But somehow they get turned. Or because their elders convince them that its OK to claim expenses for any Willy nilly.

We have a very bad choice at the moment and I think the only way to vote is with who follows your direction on Brexit.

Bodd said:

I can't believe anyone gets into politics other than to do good.

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Have you not noticed from whence most of our government figures come from?

Or the schools that they attended?

Or the ease with which they have come into money?

The term 'ruling elite' is there for a reason!

You don't need 'from' with 'whence'.

Bodd said:

We have a very bad choice at the moment and I think the only way to vote is with who follows your direction on Brexit

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Lib dem for you then

Notch7 said:

Lib dem for you then

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That the only place you can go

Ihavenojob said:

just over 10% of the prison population that are foreign criminals, they should deport them and we would have more room for home grown criminals

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But then we'd have to ask for all the British prisoners held overseas to be sent home in return, so we wouldn't be much better off.
Also, the problem with that is trusting that when prisoners are deported they will be imprisoned again - if they are let out, they might come back again...

Bodd said:

That the only place you can go

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And you

Its time we forgot this Brexit caper.

Notch7 said:

Its time we forgot this Brexit caper.

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Correct. Worst thing ever to hit these shores.

jonbey said:

But then we'd have to ask for all the British prisoners held overseas to be sent home in return, so we wouldn't be much better off.
Also, the problem with that is trusting that when prisoners are deported they will be imprisoned again - if they are let out, they might come back again...

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We'd be much better off, only about 2,200 Brits held abroad as opposed to about 10.000 foreigners in UK jails. If they are deported then it is not our problem, as with freedom of movement removed, they SHOULDN'T come back, but we all know how easy it is to get into the UK and use human rights laws to stay.

Notch7 said:

Its true, police cuts arent the only reason for a rise crime. Rising inequality, austerity, loss of youth clubs etc are all factors.


Interesting.

Do have proof to back that up.


Apart from the fact more punishment doesnt work, it cant be done because the Tory government keep cutting prison budgets.

Oh and quite a few prisons are private contracts so are severely understaffed.

Andy, it sounds like you are seeking a Labour government to reverse austerity.

Would you like to see prison budgets increased?



Ha ha, thats really funny -lets see you back that up



Further indications of rising hunger include a growing number of infants and pregnant mothers suffering from anaemia; an increasing number of people diagnosed with malnutrition in UK hospitals; a rising number of children starting their first and primary year of primary school underweight. In 2015 for example, 6,367 children started reception class underweight, which is up 16% on 2012 figures. Official figures published in November 2016 indicated that the number of hospital beds assigned to folk suffering from malnutrition had nearly tripled in the last decade

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You are so knee-deep in the quagmire of loony left thought and so far away from the sunlit uplands of truth and decency that it is sad and depressing to see and hard to know where to begin!

CRIME: You look at crime from the wrong end of the telescope, with your concerns about inequality, poverty, austerity and youth clubs! What matters are the victims of crime and the safety of the general public - do you ever consider the plight of the raped, the mugged, the intimidated and the burgled and how impoverished their lives have been made? You appear to put the criminal's welfare above these concerns. The criminal's well-being does not matter; what matters is that he is sufficiently punished and that he makes sufficient recompense to the victim.

PRISON SPENDING: No, I do not want more prison spending - I want less. What are these stupid figures we hear of how much it costs to keep a prisoner? It's nonsense. Bread, water, shackles and a cold cell cost very little. We are spending the prison budget in entirely the wrong way - as we are with the police budget. Prisons should be so uncomfortable, harsh and austere that they cast dread and fear into anybody thinking of robbing and raping, and so terrible that nobody would ever want to go into one. I do not care one jot about the plight of prisoners and think that the warders should have every power and force at their disposal to keep them down. The prisoners should be in fear of the warders; should not be allowed to look at the warders and should not be allowed to associate with one another.

POVERTY: Poverty my arse! Malnutrition, anaemia, children going to school underfed... all totally unnecessary. The largest part of Britain's public spending is on welfare - the system is very generous. Anybody in receipt of welfare who is suffering malnourishment is simply not managing the money correctly (notice a running theme here?) The welfare system is all wrong anyway - it should not be distributed in cash.