Permitted Development Rights - impact on further development

Joined
11 Feb 2009
Messages
680
Reaction score
9
Location
London
Country
United Kingdom
PD rights are a legal entitlement.
Assuming correct materials and finishes are used ... do planners view PD rights when carried out - as having 'Impact', namely on the 'character of the area' and 'neighboring properties' ?

How do Permitted Development rights trump Residential Design Guidance here at our Local Council.
PD works do not satisfy the Residential Design Guidance - yet they are attainable under PD.

I am trying to ascertain whether a 6mt rear ground floor extension vs a 3mt rear ground floor extension - if sought as PD, would have any impact on further Full Plans applications - namely a 3mt first floor part rear extension - a precedent for these has already been set in the street, but so far only on top of 3mt ground floor extensions (sought under PD).

ie can PD applications - if gained - then go onto be viewed by planning officers as contributing to over development ?? or is it viewed separately when gauging impact and they are a legal entitlement.

Thanks
 
Sponsored Links
Looking at the other similar developments in the street, the council officers seem to have required the part 1st floor rear extensions to be stepped back from the line of the 3mt ground floor rear extensions below, by approx 250-500mm - I will assume this is to 'soften' the impact of such an elevation. It appears some completed 1st floor extensions have not adhered to what has been approved, and are extended to the 3mt building line. By passing of time I will assume they are deemed lawful.
I am proposing a 3mt 1st floor on-top of a 6mt ground floor, a fair degree of step back, when viewed from a rear perspective ...
 
The application as whole *should* be judged against what is allowable under Permitted Development, so the impact for the Planning Application should only be the second story part. But the reality is that your application is unlikely to be looked at by a genuine Planning expert unless either you supply your own to argue that case, or it is rejected and you take it to appeal. Where you'll also need an expert on your side to make that case.

I would get a well regarded Planning Consultant on board now if you want the impact to be judged correctly. Another approach may be to get planning permission for three metres and two stories, but build to 6 under PD. But there's a risk that the planning permission would remove Permitted Development rights. You would need an expert involved for that approach too as you would be arguing that all of the lower story is PD rather than just the extra 3m.
 
Sponsored Links
The first assessment is against national planning polices.
Then it will be assessed against any local planning policies and extension guidelines, together with any other applicable council (non planning) criteria.
Then, any relevant public or neighbour comments are considered.
Finally, (and this is where the OP question comes in) a subjective opinion on the development in general and its impact as it is now, and how it will be if permission is granted.
 
Sorry, I should have said that the local authority have on Pre-App advised us to do any PD first, then apply for any additional works via Full Plans -once the PD is up.
I did not indicate a 1st floor would be going up in the pre-app.
The pre-app also stated that the PD works did not satisfy the design guidelines.

I guess you would think a good study of all these policies and guidelines would help one form a view similar to those at the council - but I must admit after my reading of these, they seem to follow it with a very very broad brush, and sometimes veer madly off it.

Decisions all seem very bizarre.
Around 10 years ago - one of the 1st floor developments in the street was constructed illegally, with a retro App. going in shortly after completion, but then recieved an enforcement notice against it, it then went to appeal - and the planning inspectorate decided it was unlawful, and that it should be demolished, this was eventually done, however in the same paragraph of the inspectorates findings - due to other 1st floor developments that had been completed in the 3-5 years this particular debacle had rambled on - with all the enforcement and appeal process taking so long, the inspectorate wrote that a precedent for these types of extensions had since been set in the street, and that they invited the appellant to re-apply to the council to have it re-instated, which he duly did, and the council granted thus.

All the 1st floors were developed approx 10 years ago - on-top of 3mt ground extns, since then the 6mt PD right has been available - of which I am applying.

It all seems such a black art to try navigate.
The council allow a 15 story block to go up at the end of a quiet residential street ... totally out of keeping with the area, indescribable impact ... yet they pick over household applications to add an extension and its impact ... which I do get, but just not the 15 story block.
 
Last edited:
Sorry, I should have said that the local authority have on Pre-App advised us to do any PD first, then apply for any additional works via Full Plans -once the PD is up.
Which is standard as you can do things under PD which wont get permission if you applied for the exact same thing.
 
Setting back an extension is what planners call being 'subservient ' to the main building. House extensions shouldn't be so complicated with various applications for different stages of construction. In my opinion have an extension designed for what you want (within reason ) and if necessary submit a planning application as required and have it dealt with at one go.
 
Which is standard as you can do things under PD which wont get permission if you applied for the exact same thing.

If the application covers only things that can be done under PD, then it should never be validated as it's effectively already approved. This won't happen every time, but certainly where they're not filtered out they should all be approved if the Planning Officer does his job properly. Which also doesn't happen all the time.
 
If the application covers only things that can be done under PD, then it should never be validated as it's effectively already approved. This won't happen every time, but certainly where they're not filtered out they should all be approved if the Planning Officer does his job properly. Which also doesn't happen all the time.
How are the planning admin staff expected to know what is and is not PD without a planner spending time assessing the proposal?

What you are saying is that the admin person who validates the applications is expected to effectively decide what is PD or not in 10 minutes, and do the work that a qualified planner would do on an LDC application which would take several weeks.
 
I should have said that the local authority have on Pre-App advised us to do any PD first, then apply for any additional works via Full Plans -once the PD is up.

I had to do the opposite due to green belt over-development rules. If the PD had existed first then it would reduce the size of any additional expansion in future. The limit my authority imposes is "around 50%" increase in floor area.
 
The officer has already questioned parts of the smaller PD app - which shows they don't just rubber stamp it, guess they need to verify what they have on paper fits within PD etc.

I have been advised to make staged applications, 4 in all, each one adding a bit more to the next, which took a while to get my head round.

At the top of the road - someone took a small bungalow and through multiple applications (inc PD) added Ground floor front and rear extensions, and first a floor extension - it swallowed the bungalow and spat it out as a re-incarnated mansion, leaving a small patch of lifeless paved land at the front and rear.

They only stopped enlarging and applying after they wanted to extend the 3mt 1st floor and full width roof dormer further out, and the council finally refused.

Looking at the Residential Design Guidance - and the finished property - it broke all the rules, but by staging it over-ruled ... seems an odd way to make planning decisions, the neighbour next door who wants to add a small bit has to strictly follow such guidance, yet the developer who plays it ... gets to add a disproportionate amount of volume ... and that clearly doesn't follow the guidance.
 
I have been advised to make staged applications, 4 in all, each one adding a bit more to the next
What exactly are the 4 stages of applications you have been advised to make ? It all seems a bit odd for a house extension !
 
1) Pre-App
2) 3mt PD
3) 6mt PD
4) Flat conversion with 1st floor part rear extension.

.. the 6mt was an after thought, and went in after the 3mt, only after hearing one week before the schemes end (30-05-19) that the DCLG had announced they would extended the 6-8mt scheme indefinitely.

Am dealing with a council, where planning services have been privatised.

Always helpful and friendly duty officers available at the end of the phone 9-5.
If you get your wallet out, you can shorten the time period for applications ... Validation and Consultation letters sent out within 24 hours, Officers initial decision by email within 3-5 days, pending any neighbor consultation process - which I understand is a statutory 5 weeks, this part unfortunately cannot be accelerated.

So far the 'providings they are providing' have been excellent - delivered on-time when expected, with time on the phone to answer any questions, yet with another near council I have dealt with - I've never actually managed to get to speak to a person ever ... always on answer, rubbish.

Note: I am not here to argue the ethicacy of a privatised planning service, there are positives and some negatives of this I know for residents ... but this is just my experience in dealing with the planning process here so far.

Its a sunny day today, I am going to go outside for a bit ...
 
Last edited:

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top