Extension of Ring Main & Readings

loopy66 · 19 Jun 2019

Quick update. The smart meter scheduled to be installed today didn't get installed. The installer couldn't work out the "wires", ie, he couldn't work out where they were going. I have a fuse box and then additional have been added, ie, outside circuit comes out to an external RCD, the shower comes out to an external fuse and then an RCD and, it's all labelled but, he couldn't work it out

You guys were spot on about these meter installers, they really are not any kind of electricians and based on this experience, I am not sure why they are out installing meters or in my case, not installing meters.

SimonH2 · 19 Jun 2019

They are anyone who can get through a short course on "meter fitting by numbers". The guy that came to fit our isolator had been a meter reader but saw the writing on the wall for that and took the opportunity to change jobs.
Demand is such that there's no way they could recruit electrically knowledgable people in sufficient numbers. So it seems you just need to know your L from your N (anecdotally that seems questionable) and which end of a screwdriver to hold.
OK that's rather a sweeping generalisation - so apologies to those who do actually care. Read a thread recently from someone worried about "how tight is tight" and it was clear that their traing was inadequate.

AndyPRK · 19 Jun 2019

this is high up on the list of why I don't want one.

I don't trust the fitters!

JohnW2 · 20 Jun 2019

AndyPRK said:
this is high up on the list of why I don't want one. I don't trust the fitters!

... but you have to have some sort of meter, and in recent times they have (at least for me) undertaken 'routine meter changes' fairly frequently (I'm on my fourth meter in a little over 30 years) .... so who would you trust to fit a replacement (non-smart) meter?

Kind Regards, John

AndyPRK · 20 Jun 2019

Well in the olden days meter changers were fully trained and experienced.

At the moment, as above you dont know who you will get.

SimonH2 · 20 Jun 2019

JohnW2 said:
I'm on my fourth meter in a little over 30 years

Your experience seems a little atypical.
In my limited experience, changing meters isn't something they do frequently if they can avoid it - and especially with the old Ferraris disk meters, I believe they have a working life of something like 20 years before they are removed to go back for a calibration check. It seems like it's a modern trend that these new fangled electronic meters seem to get changed more frequently - and a lot of that seems to be down to this insistence on fitting so called "smart" meters.
At the last place I worked, there was a meter room with walls full of meters, something in the order of 30-40 of them (one per unit). As of a couple of years ago, there still seemed to be a small majority of disk meters, though there were a lot of smart meters getting fitted. Ours were still disk meters. The place was built in the 80s, and I can't say there were many meter change labels other than on the new smart meters.

JohnW2 · 20 Jun 2019

AndyPRK said:
Well in the olden days meter changers were fully trained and experienced. At the moment, as above you dont know who you will get.

I totally agree. However, I thought your point was that the nature of meter changers was 'high on your list' of reasons for not wanting a smart meter. On that assumption, I was pointing out that you would have the same problem even with a non-smarty meter.

Kind Regards, John

JohnW2 · 20 Jun 2019

SimonH2 said:
Your experience seems a little atypical. In my limited experience, changing meters isn't something they do frequently if they can avoid it - and especially with the old Ferraris disk meters, I believe they have a working life of something like 20 years before they are removed to go back for a calibration check. It seems like it's a modern trend that these new fangled electronic meters seem to get changed more frequently ....

I don't know how 'atypical' it is, but I was certainly surprised - but I am talking (primarily, maybe exclusively) about new-fangled {non-smart} electronic meters.

When I moved here 32 years ago, I inherited a messy arrangement of several single-phase meters, so I immediately had that changed to a single 3-phase one. I honestly can't remember whether that 'first one' I had fitted was electro-mechanical or electronic (I must have photos somewhere, but goodness knows where!).

Whatever, since that first one (installed 32 years ago), I have subsequently had three 'replacements' (all electronic and non-smart), the most recent about 2 years ago (hence 30 years from the first one). Hence, my (mainly, if not exclusively, non-smart electronic) meters have been changed, on average, every 10 years.

SimonH2 said:
- and a lot of that seems to be down to this insistence on fitting so called "smart" meters.

Certainly not in my case. As above, the last 'routine change' was in early 2017 and, at that time, they did not even offer me a smart meter, let alone try to 'force' one on me!

Kind Regards, John

AndyPRK · 20 Jun 2019

I assume it depends what trends they find when they test them.
If they find a certain brand / model goes out of cal sooner than others they get changed out.

Seams my experience when 2 meters have been sat next to each other over a period of 40 years.

JohnW2 · 20 Jun 2019

AndyPRK said:
I assume it depends what trends they find when they test them. If they find a certain brand / model goes out of cal sooner than others they get changed out.

Maybe. I seem to recall that, at least in the past (with electro-mechanical meters), they had a 're-calibration' date put on them by the manufacturer - although it seems that many of those old ones were still in service decades beyond that date!

I suspect that many/most/all of the electronic ones have backup batteries in them, so, if that is true, then maybe it's the limited lifespan of those batteries which is one of the main issues?

Kind Regards, John

AndyPRK · 20 Jun 2019

I would think they have nvm ram in them

But yes gas and water meters have batteries that last 10years+

My water meter flashed giving me weeks of warning it required replacement. They weren’t in rush to replace and it still had the reading when it was removed.

JohnW2 · 20 Jun 2019

AndyPRK said:
I would think they have nvm ram in them

Yes, I'd be very surprised if they didn't - so, as you imply, data storage probably does not rely on batteries.

However, all of my non-smart electronic meters have been E7 ones, and so contain a clock, which presumably needs to be kept going in the event of a loss of power (since I don't think that non-smart ones have any means of remotely resetting the clock).

Kind Regards, John

AndyPRK · 20 Jun 2019

I think there are nurmeruous E7 setups. More than anyone can believe.

I have an external timer that tells the meter when to rate change.

This drifts during power cuts.
Whether it once had batteries and they failed I don’t know.

JohnW2 · 20 Jun 2019

AndyPRK said:
I think there are nurmeruous E7 setups. More than anyone can believe.

Indeed.

AndyPRK said:
I have an external timer that tells the meter when to rate change. This drifts during power cuts.

The first meter I had installed (in 1987) had an external (electro-mechanical) timeswitch (with a clockwork 'backup', no batteries). However, when that was replaced, the external timeswitch was removed, so all three subsequent (electronic) meters have presumably had internal (battery-backed-up) clocks.

Kind Regards, John

AndyPRK · 20 Jun 2019

Yeah the storage heater timer is mechanical wind up backup.

But not the meter one!

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Extension of Ring Main & Readings

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