How do you deduce that from that label?
Extension - builder economic with truth - regs breached imo - what do I do?
- Thread starter mashie
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can't you ask the local council building inspector to come and inspect? Or is it too late for that?
g is solar gain.......something that you would see on those window energy rating labels -its not that relavent
No the council won't deal with a private job.
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L
Leofric
why did you think he was useless
- why
Who proposed the foundation details
Some dodgey statements above but what was the architect employed to do
If it is permitted development you don't need planning approval Why were the local council inspecting foundations if they weren't doing the building control
It isn't the job of the building control company to advise the builder on construction to comply with building regs i.e. the design.
Is the builder doing the work under a Building Notice.
This is a good example in my opinion why it is best to apply for building regulations approval under a Full Plans Submission, you then have approved drawings before work starts on site . Maybe it isn't too late to bring an architect or architectural technician in to help sort it all out .
My interpretation was that it was a planning officer who came to confirm the size etc was PD.
I must admit the whole thing is confusing.
Hi all
sorry to be confusing - it reflects the fact I haven't done anything like this before and have tried to do things correctly but have also (I think) been misled by the builder. Different people's roles, as I've seen them .. and been told about them.. are as follows. I know some of this seems wrong (eg private building control being an advisor - but that is what he told me himself!).
Planning - it is a permitted development under the larger extension scheme. We needed to consult formally with neighbours and then the planning officer came to see the foundations. They will come again when it's finished. I believe their role is just to check that we are building what we said we would build, where we said it would be built, and that the situation (roads, neighbours etc) is as we described it.
Building control. I've spoken to the council since the start about specific facts, and they've always been v helpful - but they can't do much since a private company has been appointed. The builder said he would take care of building control. I thought that meant he would liaise with the council. When I saw the U=2.8 labels, I found out who was inspecting the work (a private company paid by the builder, not what I'd have chosen). I spoke to that company - the person dealing with our case described himself to me as a technical advisor, and he's the person who issues the certificate at the end. But the builder had told him it was a conservatory and therefore exempt. He checked the plans (which he had in his records) and confirmed that is is NOT a conservatory. I don't know what "plans" those were - maybe the architect's drawing, maybe something the builder did. This was 2 weeks ago, 8 months into the build so I don't feel he was inspecting very much or advising along the way! They are at the point of booking a final inspection but he hadn't noticed that it doesn't have a glass roof.
Architect: took 9 months to come up with a "visualisation" for £3K. He did a site survey for measurements (but didn't spot the drains). He refused to discuss in detail things like drainage and slopes and his proposal for slopes on the outside patio were not viable. His estimated costs tripled over the 9 months although nothing we asked for changed (the delays were just him not doing anything). His drawings were accurate but put the new walls slightly in front of existing doors - which caused issues later (had to make the room wider!). Had we proceeded with him more plans would have been needed but he didn't seem to be paying much attention, he took ages, and whenever he deigned to get back to us we had to start again because he had forgotten everything! We couldn't really face dealing with someone like that and builder and planning seemed to think the plans were sufficient for building a box. A friend recommended him as being creative - his work has since left her bankrupt, with a half-built house, at 70. I feel we made the right call not to go with him!
Of course the plans were not detailed and didn't include details such as U values - they were only a "visualisation" (whatever that is) but included measurement for all walls (including existing house and garden), falls, window dimensions etc. We've discussed almost every decision as we go along with the builder and have had to learn tons of technical details about all kinds of things (which is interesting). We're pretty sick of taking the decisions but at least we've got the design we want (mostly, some compromises, eg they stuffed up the levels inside and out in 6 different ways so the one room has 3 different step heights for 3 different doors on two walls - this is where I feel a decent architect would have helped.
It looks pretty good and we thought it met all necessary regs up to this window business. My one concern is whether it will be too hot in summer and too cold in winter. That's why I wanted low e glass and suggested reflective glass.
Council building control were very vague about low e glass - it's "quite new" and they think maybe toughened glass is automatically low e. They didn't know parameters and weren't sure if emissivity or solar transmissivity is regulated. They felt you should "fit the best you can" (which in a new build situation like this would imo be U=1.2 low e... etc)
So .... maybe the private company with some prompting will actually check. they say it is the builder who does the SAP calcs for them. The room right now is an oven and is affecting adjacent rooms - but we haven't yet put in the new intermediate doors and some lintel has been opened up, leaving leaks. So it could improve.
Sorry for the long message - I feel sad that I've been confusing but I think it reflects misinformation I've received from the parties involved. My personal take is that the council is powerless and a bit wishy washy; the builder probably made a mistake and is trying to cover it up rather than pay to fix it; the private BC people are ticking boxes with their fingers crossed but may take an interest now I'm asking questions.
sorry to be confusing - it reflects the fact I haven't done anything like this before and have tried to do things correctly but have also (I think) been misled by the builder. Different people's roles, as I've seen them .. and been told about them.. are as follows. I know some of this seems wrong (eg private building control being an advisor - but that is what he told me himself!).
Planning - it is a permitted development under the larger extension scheme. We needed to consult formally with neighbours and then the planning officer came to see the foundations. They will come again when it's finished. I believe their role is just to check that we are building what we said we would build, where we said it would be built, and that the situation (roads, neighbours etc) is as we described it.
Building control. I've spoken to the council since the start about specific facts, and they've always been v helpful - but they can't do much since a private company has been appointed. The builder said he would take care of building control. I thought that meant he would liaise with the council. When I saw the U=2.8 labels, I found out who was inspecting the work (a private company paid by the builder, not what I'd have chosen). I spoke to that company - the person dealing with our case described himself to me as a technical advisor, and he's the person who issues the certificate at the end. But the builder had told him it was a conservatory and therefore exempt. He checked the plans (which he had in his records) and confirmed that is is NOT a conservatory. I don't know what "plans" those were - maybe the architect's drawing, maybe something the builder did. This was 2 weeks ago, 8 months into the build so I don't feel he was inspecting very much or advising along the way! They are at the point of booking a final inspection but he hadn't noticed that it doesn't have a glass roof.
Architect: took 9 months to come up with a "visualisation" for £3K. He did a site survey for measurements (but didn't spot the drains). He refused to discuss in detail things like drainage and slopes and his proposal for slopes on the outside patio were not viable. His estimated costs tripled over the 9 months although nothing we asked for changed (the delays were just him not doing anything). His drawings were accurate but put the new walls slightly in front of existing doors - which caused issues later (had to make the room wider!). Had we proceeded with him more plans would have been needed but he didn't seem to be paying much attention, he took ages, and whenever he deigned to get back to us we had to start again because he had forgotten everything! We couldn't really face dealing with someone like that and builder and planning seemed to think the plans were sufficient for building a box. A friend recommended him as being creative - his work has since left her bankrupt, with a half-built house, at 70. I feel we made the right call not to go with him!
Of course the plans were not detailed and didn't include details such as U values - they were only a "visualisation" (whatever that is) but included measurement for all walls (including existing house and garden), falls, window dimensions etc. We've discussed almost every decision as we go along with the builder and have had to learn tons of technical details about all kinds of things (which is interesting). We're pretty sick of taking the decisions but at least we've got the design we want (mostly, some compromises, eg they stuffed up the levels inside and out in 6 different ways so the one room has 3 different step heights for 3 different doors on two walls - this is where I feel a decent architect would have helped.
It looks pretty good and we thought it met all necessary regs up to this window business. My one concern is whether it will be too hot in summer and too cold in winter. That's why I wanted low e glass and suggested reflective glass.
Council building control were very vague about low e glass - it's "quite new" and they think maybe toughened glass is automatically low e. They didn't know parameters and weren't sure if emissivity or solar transmissivity is regulated. They felt you should "fit the best you can" (which in a new build situation like this would imo be U=1.2 low e... etc)
So .... maybe the private company with some prompting will actually check. they say it is the builder who does the SAP calcs for them. The room right now is an oven and is affecting adjacent rooms - but we haven't yet put in the new intermediate doors and some lintel has been opened up, leaving leaks. So it could improve.
Sorry for the long message - I feel sad that I've been confusing but I think it reflects misinformation I've received from the parties involved. My personal take is that the council is powerless and a bit wishy washy; the builder probably made a mistake and is trying to cover it up rather than pay to fix it; the private BC people are ticking boxes with their fingers crossed but may take an interest now I'm asking questions.
Actual questions still - last message was to try to clear up confusion I caused:
1. Realistically, what type of glass would help keep the room cooler in summer and warmer in winter?
2. Is there any requirement on solar transmittance for the windows? (We have plain, air-filled double glazing with toughened glass - does it meet regs?).
3. Do we need exterior doors on the inside wall of the extension (builder has suddenly suggested this)
4. Could we help with 1 by specifying good U values and low e glass for the interior doors.
I think if we put in the right interior doors we can prevent adverse effects on the original building but may not have year-round use of the room.
Thanks again for everyone's wisdom, sorry for writing so much,
Mashie
1. Realistically, what type of glass would help keep the room cooler in summer and warmer in winter?
2. Is there any requirement on solar transmittance for the windows? (We have plain, air-filled double glazing with toughened glass - does it meet regs?).
3. Do we need exterior doors on the inside wall of the extension (builder has suddenly suggested this)
4. Could we help with 1 by specifying good U values and low e glass for the interior doors.
I think if we put in the right interior doors we can prevent adverse effects on the original building but may not have year-round use of the room.
Thanks again for everyone's wisdom, sorry for writing so much,
Mashie
I think you're right about a full plans submission - and your other points - but I didn't know about the options when I started and did what various "experts" suggested. In fact - how does a normal person find out the different ways to go about building an extension? I used an architect, a builder, building control and the internet.
why did you think he was useless
- why
Who proposed the foundation details
Some dodgey statements above but what was the architect employed to do
Why were the local council inspecting foundations if they weren't doing the building control
It isn't the job of the building control company to advise the builder on construction to comply with building regs i.e. the design.
Is the builder doing the work under a Building Notice.
This is a good example in my opinion why it is best to apply for building regulations approval under a Full Plans Submission, you then have approved drawings before work starts on site . Maybe it isn't too late to bring an architect or architectural technician in to help sort it all out .
Having read the above new posts from you and in addition to the earlier ones, I would say youve been unfortunate in being badly advised by both Architect, private inspector and builder.
1 In general I specify solar control neutral which has self clean for the roof external pane and saint gobain planitherm total soft coat for inner pane of a double glazed unit. Warm edge spacer bar and argon gas fill.
Doors and windows: soft coat low e, warm edge spacer bar, argon gas fill -which will achieve an A window energy rating and a centre pane value of about 1.1 and a whole unit value of around 1.6
Notice the solar heat reflectance:
https://www.tuffxglass.co.uk/products/ambi-neutral/
Generally solar control glass is only used in the roof, but can be used in side frames if sun is a real issue -bear in mind the glass is tinted to achieve the solar reduction,
I would always have an electric opening vent in the roof -heat rises and gets trapped, a roof vent allows that hot air to be released.
If you sunroom is built with the right materials it shouldnt get too hot, nor make adjacent rooms hot.
2. No
3. Not if the sunroom is under regs -it should either comp,y with part L or gave a SAPS test.
4. Yes, but try and sort out the sunroom first
So your sunroom: is the room south facing and what windows, doors, roof lantern / velux does it have
Ive built loads of orangeries, none get too hot -but I always advise on roof lantern size etc etc during the design stage.
No -pilkington K glass a hard coat low emissivity glass has been around since around 2000
Toughened glass: no its not automatically low e -and I think your glass sticker indicates its clear glass with no low e.
Any half decent builder should get FFLs correct -its an absolute basic.
Theres no excuse, a builder should start by setting datum points with a laser and work everything to it.
I doubt an architect would help with this
Is this for other work?
The building control aspect of this project is very confusing.
If it was built as exempt, it would have had no inspections
If it was built needing regs, it would need periodic inspections, including foundations, drainage, floor construction, roof construction, etc -usually around 3 to 5 inspections along with structural calcs, buildjng regs drawings, electrical certificate etc -and without all that no fjnal cert would be issued.
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@Notch7 Thanks - that all sounds brilliant - and thanks for encouragement to sort it out, it is getting us down. Thing is, how do we fix it retrospectively? If you can help me think it through I'd really appreciate it... and thanks for the sympathy!
It is an extremely exposed spot. It faces West and the prevailing winds charge at it over fields from the south west, in winter it's fiercely cold. It is 6 feet above ground level as the ground falls away fast from the house - which makes it more exposed. I have 4 neighbours with west-facing conservatories and all of them have replaced their glass in the past 10 years because of excessive heat in summer. This is why I raised it with the builder! I think we need low e on the wall glass because of these conditions.
As to the spec -- the room is 7m x 3.2m. I'll post a photo!
I don't know what glass we have in the lantern. No labels...We have two self opening veluxes in the lantern. The lantern is about 20% of the roof area and the veluxes amount to 1/3 of the glass area.
There are 7 panes other than the doors and opening window. Two of those are 2m high, 1.1m wide. 4 are about 1.6m high x 1.m. That's a lot of glass, and it's all just double glazed with toughened glass, no argon or coatings. The U value is either 2.8 or 1.6 depending what spec the builder manages to prove he has installed.
The doors and one opening large window are labeled "label on inside" and one of the panes is 4mm S/COATG. I presume this means the inner pane has some sort of soft coat.... their U values are better, 1.8 for the doors and 1.4 for the window. Doors are 2m x .9m and the opening window is 1.6m x 1m
The panes are clam shell fixed with acoya onto oak beams. It has all been sanded and filled and painted. To replace them will mean removing gutter, finding all the fixing holes, unscrewing, refitting and making good. Not impossible but not cheap - I would guess it is 3 weeks' work at worst for one person (one carpenter built the whole thing - from seasoned oak - amazing work but very slow. We were told 16 weeks and so far it's been 9 months). I am considering paying to redo it, since although I asked for low e, he says he doesn't remember and I can't prove it (no documentation). Since we usually talk about every millimetre of the spec, I expected to sit down and have a proper discussion about the glazing at some point, but it just arrived one day.
As to the private building control company - I think they do two inspections and rely on what the builder tells them. He does all the calcs for them. But they seem at least to be asking for evidence of what spec glass he has used. After the first inspection the BC inspector thought it was an exempt building and probably would always have thought so if I hadn't phoned him.
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