This is the healthcare we voted for with Brexit - Lets Do It

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Gerrydelasel said:
Are you suggesting the government will never allow a risk-taking AOC to fail? If the government decides it will not allow a private business to fail, even when it ought to fail, then that is a problem with the government, not with the market. You have just proven you don't understand how markets work. And if you think the government really is that reckless, why on earth do you want it to have monopoly over the entire health service?*

*How many times do we read about hospital scandals, sometimes years of unacceptable service and the unecessary deaths of hundreds of patients? And how often does that result in the hospital closure, change of ownership, or operator prosecution? Never, because the state is the owner and operator; it does not permit alternative ownership and will not prosecute itself. So it's business as usual.
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hahahahahahahah

I have to laugh that you think you know how market operates. Moral Hazard and adverse selection. So you talk about the ACO operating within the so called market? What market is this? Is there entry and exit? Are there substitutes and compliments? It's not a market, its tendering to run public services, a market would be like the phone, car, electronics market- it exhibits properties of a market.

You have just proven you really have no idea.

If a hospital fails and close suddenly - what is the social,economic and health costs? Why did the Government take back the contract from Circle? Why didn't it just let it fail and let the hospital close and let the patients fend for themselves. Your a libertarian ideologue with no idea of how markets or what even a market is.

Tell me about the opioid crisis in the US and the massive scandal how private pharma companies paid private Drs to prescribe opioids driving the massive epidemic.

https://www.peoplesworld.org/articl...s-are-the-drug-kingpins-of-the-opioid-crisis/

The problem with your idiotic analysis that private ownership will increase efficiency gets blown apart when you see that Private healthcare providers in the US have admin costs running at about 25% of total healthcare costs way more than any Government Run Health system.

You really do not have any idea whatsoever. You have a childish understanding and that maybe an insult to children.
 
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SirGalahad said:
hahahahahahahah

I have to laugh that you think you know how market operates. Moral Hazard and adverse selection. So you talk about the ACO operating within the so called market? What market is this? Is there entry and exit? Are there substitutes and compliments? It's not a market, its tendering to run public services, a market would be like the phone, car, electronics market- it exhibits properties of a market.

You have just proven you really have no idea.

If a hospital fails and close suddenly - what is the social,economic and health costs? Why did the Government take back the contract from Circle? Why didn't it just let it fail and let the hospital close and let the patients fend for themselves. Your a libertarian ideologue with no idea of how markets or what even a market is.

Tell me about the opioid crisis in the US and the massive scandal how private pharma companies paid private Drs to prescribe opioids driving the massive epidemic.

https://www.peoplesworld.org/articl...s-are-the-drug-kingpins-of-the-opioid-crisis/

The problem with your idiotic analysis that private ownership will increase efficiency gets blown apart when you see that Private healthcare providers in the US have admin costs running at about 25% of total healthcare costs way more than any Government Run Health system.

You really do not have any idea whatsoever. You have a childish understanding and that maybe an insult to children.
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LOL. Spoken like a real player. You should go in with lally. He's a millionaire too.
 
mitch66 said:
LOL. Spoken like a real player. You should go in with lally. He's a millionaire too.
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When your world view is shattered and you have no response other than foaming at the mouth.

Your the easiest person to con. No wonder you keep getting the wrong end of the stick.
 
SirGalahad said:
The problem with your idiotic analysis that private ownership will increase efficiency gets blown apart when you see that Private healthcare providers in the US have admin costs running at about 25% of total healthcare costs way more than any Government Run Health system.
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That is primarily because of the existence of the FDA which makes onerous demands on the drug companies and insurance providers, creating a very expensive system of bureaucracy and litigation, i.e admin. Again, a failure (interference) of government, not markets.
 
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Gerrydelasel said:
That is primarily because of the existence of the FDA which makes onerous demands on the drug companies and insurance providers, creating a very expensive system of bureaucracy and litigation, i.e admin. Again, a failure (interference) of government, not markets.
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Absolute b ollux!

Explain then why existing approved drug costs are rising rapidly well after FDA approval when costs are then minimal :rolleyes:

There is a scam between big pharma and insurers which involves up to 40% of the cost of drugs being paid back in the form of a rebate to the insurers in order that they cover the invented high costs in the first place!

All involved make huge profits, and the 'consumer' suffers...

And it's odd how you think making sure drugs are safe and ensuring recompense is possible when things go wrong is 'onerous'!
 
mitch66 said:
LOL You're a ****.
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Poor Mitch.

Such a simpleton, keep voting for yourself and your kids to be poorer.

Do it with a smile. :)

Gerrydelasel said:
That is primarily because of the existence of the FDA which makes onerous demands on the drug companies and insurance providers, creating a very expensive system of bureaucracy and litigation, i.e admin. Again, a failure (interference) of government, not markets.
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Not even scraping the barrel here, this is just now in cloud cuckoo land. Typical RWR blaming regulation.

Drug costs represent 10% of all US healthcare costs. US healthcare spending is about 18% of GDP.

You really have no clue. Can you tell me why there is over provision of tests?
 
ellal said:
Explain then why existing approved drug costs are rising rapidly well after FDA approval when costs are then minimal :rolleyes:
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You need to educate yourself. The FDA creates incentives for insurance companies only to cover FDA-approved drugs even when there are cheap generic versions of the same compound available, and it creates incentives for pharma to cease production of formerly-approved compounds in favour of almost-the-same-but-new compounds. Which cost a hundred times more. There's no limit to the number of healthcare professionals who write about the willful obstruction to public health presented by the FDA -just google some. There are many essays on this blog:
http://www.fdalawblog.net/
And in a more readable form:
https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/03/11/ketamine-now-by-prescription/
https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/08/29/reverse-voxsplaining-drugs-vs-chairs/~
https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/09/07/reverse-voxsplaining-brand-name-drugs/
 
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Gerrydelasel said:
You need to educate yourself. The FDA creates incentives for insurance companies only to cover FDA-approved drugs even when there are cheap generic versions of the same compound available, and it creates incentives for pharma to cease production of formerly-approved compounds in favour of almost-the-same-but-new compounds. Which cost a hundred times more. There's no limit to the number of healthcare professionals who write about the willful obstruction to public health presented by the FDA -just google some. There are many essays on this blog:
http://www.fdalawblog.net/
And in a more readable form:
https://slatestarcodex.com/2019/03/11/ketamine-now-by-prescription/
https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/08/29/reverse-voxsplaining-drugs-vs-chairs/~
https://slatestarcodex.com/2016/09/07/reverse-voxsplaining-brand-name-drugs/
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Keep digging, the argument that high drug prices are the sole cause of the crazy US healthcare system is you continuing to clutch at straws.

Drugs are licensed based on clinical trials throughout the world - so why is it drugs are more expensive in the US where it is a free market where power is concentrated in the hands of the drug companies?

Thats market failure. Where is the entry and exit of new drug manufacturers? You again have no idea how markets operate other than competition must lead to the most optimal allocation of resources - keep kneeling to the Ayn Rand Libertarian playbook - its been debunked but it holds a special appeal to psychopaths - all they need is to be free from constraints and they will prosper.
 
SirGalahad said:
Keep digging, the argument that high drug prices are the sole cause of the crazy US healthcare system is you continuing to clutch at straws.

Drugs are licensed based on clinical trials throughout the world - so why is it drugs are more expensive in the US where it is a free market where power is concentrated in the hands of the drug companies?

Thats market failure. Where is the entry and exit of new drug manufacturers? You again have no idea how markets operate other than competition must lead to the most optimal allocation of resources - keep kneeling to the Ayn Rand Libertarian playbook - its been debunked but it holds a special appeal to psychopaths - all they need is to be free from constraints and they will prosper.
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American Pharmas are out of control, its a horrible situation. Ethical products like medicine shouldnt be driven by shareholder profits.

There are plenty of examples of massive arbitary hikes in prices of certain drugs -its a blatant example of abusive milking of profits.

I suppose all, the time American government do nothing and Anerican pharmas have a monopoly, the situation wont changes.

The tight licencing, although important does make competition difficult.
 
Notch7 said:
American Pharmas are out of control, its a horrible situation. Ethical products like medicine shouldnt be driven by shareholder profits.

There are plenty of examples of massive arbitary hikes in prices of certain drugs -its a blatant example of abusive milking of profits.

I suppose all, the time American government do nothing and Anerican pharmas have a monopoly, the situation wont changes.

The tight licencing, although important does make competition difficult.
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Gerry has one point and that is that Big Pharma with their lobbyists can buy votes and legislation. Now if there was even less regulation, these pharmas would become even more powerful and influential and the reality would be they would be able to control legislation even more.

The arguments for a libertarian approach to economics is nice in theory but in reality it breaks down. It's the efficient market hypothesis argument, even when data shows the theory is wrong, they argue that its because the market is not free enough. Bonkers

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/dec/10/nobel-prize-economists-robert-shiller-eugene-fama
 
Notch7 said:
American Pharmas are out of control, its a horrible situation. Ethical products like medicine shouldnt be driven by shareholder profits.

There are plenty of examples of massive arbitary hikes in prices of certain drugs -its a blatant example of abusive milking of profits.

I suppose all, the time American government do nothing and Anerican pharmas have a monopoly, the situation wont changes.

The tight licencing, although important does make competition difficult.
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Surely for the American government and the insurance company's to lean on the these drug company's would be good for the American economy and less for the insurance company's to pay out..

What I mean by this is prevention is better than cure. The patients get the right medication in the first place to prevent any more medical treatment.. A fitter healthier workforce is good for the country.

OK the drugs company's earn less. But less than a fortune is still a fortune. They can afford it
 
Bodd said:
Surely for the American government and the insurance company's to lean on the these drug company's would be good for the American economy and less for the insurance company's to pay out..

What I mean by this is prevention is better than cure. The patients get the right medication in the first place to prevent any more medical treatment.. A fitter healthier workforce is good for the country.

OK the drugs company's earn less. But less than a fortune is still a fortune. They can afford it
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A small wrinkle with that idea. Lobbyists and PACs. The buy Republicans mainly with a nice smattering of Democrats.
 
It's quite surreal that the Donald supporters on Reddit are arguing that CDN (content delivery networks) are required to maintain free speech.

So Cloudfare should be a right but not healthcare. This is the level of madness.

Some people need to be saved from themselves.
 
SirGalahad said:
A small wrinkle with that idea. Lobbyists and PACs. The buy Republicans mainly with a nice smattering of Democrats.
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I realise that was very simplic. But that's the world we live. Greed.

Docters this morning. Got a prescription. Buying it direct over counter cheaper.
Thus us nuts and could be controled
 
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