Attaching a timer to a Storage Heater

When selecting a timeswitch, you might want to check that the display remains visible when in battery mode (most I've used blank the display to save battery power), otherwise you will have to wait up until the wee small hours when the economy 7 tariff comes on to be able to program, or adjust the timer settings.

stem said:

When selecting a timeswitch, you might want to check that the display remains visible when in battery mode (most I've used blank the display to save battery power), otherwise you will have to wait up until the wee small hours when the economy 7 tariff comes on to be able to program, or adjust the timer settings.

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True, although I have to say that that is not the case with the ones I use (ETU2000) - which keep the display on, and remain programmable, when on battery power.

However, as you will have see, I did suggest (in my previous post) that the OP undertakes the initial programming during cheap-rate E7 hours! After that initial setup, he should not need to re-programme.

He will, of course, have to use the manual over-ride switch every Friday whilst he is at home (or install a bypass switch for that purpose) - so there will be something 'to remember to do'!

Kind Regards, John

JohnW2 said:

After that initial setup, he should not need to re-programme.

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The timeswitch you mention may do that, but I don't think the LAP timeswitch that Hedgehog77 is considering keeps its display. I fitted one to a circulation pump on a hot water ringmain a few years back and I seem to remember the screen blanks when the power goes off, and that the override switch doesn't work.

If so, the OP would have to wait up after getting home after 3 weeks away when they want to have the heating on every day, then disabling it again just before going away the next time, and possibly, and if it's not an auto feature, when the clocks change in the spring and autumn.

I'm sure like the version you have these things are possible, but just wanted the OP to be aware that not all are.

stem said:

The timeswitch you mention may do that, but I don't think the LAP timeswitch that Hedgehog77 is considering keeps its display.

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Fair enough. Mine certainly does, at least for a while (I checked one of mine for about 10 mins on battery power before I posted my last message).

stem said:

.... and that the override switch doesn't work. .... If so, the OP would have to wait up after getting home after 3 weeks away when they want to have the heating on every day, then disabling it again just before going away the next time, and possibly ....

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Yes, I'd forgotten that electronic timers don't (at least, none I've seen) have a 'mechanical' manual over-ride switch. I therefore think it would probably be essential that the OP wired a 'bypass switch' across the timeswitch, regardless of when he did the initial programming.

stem said:

... and if it's not an auto feature, when the clocks change in the spring and autumn.

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That shouldn't be necessary if (like mine), E7 hours remain as GMT throughout the year (which I think is the 'norm').

Kind Regards, John

I'm effectively in the very similar situation as the OP ... Why is life never simple?

seasickstevie said:

I'm effectively in the very similar situation as the OP ... Why is life never simple?

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The solution we've been discussing is certainly viable, provided one is happy for the heating to come on one night every week whilst one is away (and has a 'bypass switch' across the time switch).

The (functionally) 'better' alternatives would not be that difficult to implement - essentially a contactor controlling the heater, controlled by some sort of internet-connected (or whatever) switch - but then one has to remember when to 'call home' and switch on the heater. Only if one's pattern of absence was totally predictable could the process be completely automated (so as to always, and only, switch on the heating the night before one came home) - which is probably not going to be the case.

Kind Regards, John

Is this thread too old to add to? I want to do a similar thing except replace all the storage heaters with infra red panels that will heat the fabric of the house and not bricks. Then i want timers on each either controlled at fusebox or at each wall switch. This will future proof the heating as E7 may not be around forever if nuclear dies. As all house switches to cheap rate in the E7 time i thought of disconnecting the storage fusebox from E7 tail from meter and connect it with a splitter to the always on tails. Then of course this is where the timers are needed to only switch on at E7 times and maybe early evenings for 2 hours. Infra red panels are half the wattage for same heating effect as storage heaters so 2 hours of peak rate in evening not too bad considering the factor of 2 saving during E7 times over 8 hours. I already have a timer on 1 mcb output under main fusebox to control a towel rail to come on in last few hours of E7 period and 1 hour in the evening.

Lancelot1 said:

... Infra red panels are half the wattage for same heating effect as storage heaters ...

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I think you need to explain what you mean by that. The laws of physics dictate that half the wattage means half the heat output, so I wonder what you mean by "same heating effect".

Kind Regards, John

Hi john. Infra red radiation heats the objects it points at and not the air. Just like when the sun is out on a ski slope you are warm despite the air being cold. Storage heaters work on convection heating the air. If someone opens the front door that air escapes but infra red keeps you warm. You can get big panels as mirrors on the walls or as pictures. Best to have them mounted on ceiling aiming their radiation on all the objects in the room and heating up the floor and walls. The floor and walls will then heat the air as secondary heating. Google storage heaters vs infra red heaters.
L

Lancelot1 said:

Hi john. Infra red radiation heats the objects it points at and not the air. Just like when the sun is out on a ski slope you are warm despite the air being cold.

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Indeed so.

Lancelot1 said:

Storage heaters work on convection heating the air. If someone opens the front door that air escapes ...

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Iit does.

Lancelot1 said:

... but infra red keeps you warm.

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Yes, if it is directed at you, it will - otherwise what it keeps warm will be whatever it is directed at.

Lancelot1 said:

You can get big panels as mirrors on the walls or as pictures. Best to have them mounted on ceiling ....

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I wonder if you are old enough to remember the days when essentially 'radiant' heaters (electric, gas, paraffin) were very common, and hence remember being huddled up close to one of those 'fires' with one's face and chest uncomfortably hot and one's back uncomfortably cold? With a ceiling mounted IR heater, the risk would presumably be that the top of one's head (particularly if one had dark hair!) and shoulders would get very hot, but the rest of one's body much less so. In general, radiant heat is not very comfortable.

Lancelot1 said:

.... aiming their radiation on all the objects in the room and heating up the floor and walls. The floor and walls will then heat the air as secondary heating.

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... and, of course, the converse is also true - if one heats the air (by convention, blown hot air or whatever), that will heat the floors, walls and contents of the room.

Returning the your claim, there is really far less difference between the two situations than to seem to be suggesting. In fact, of what you say, the only major difference is loss of heated air when someone opens a door (but how long will an outside door be left open?). Furthermore, particularly if one utilises your 'best' option (ceiling mounted IR source), one would expect that IR directed at them heats the walls and windows more rapidly and effectively than does heated air - and since the greatest heat losses from a room are through walls etc., those losses are likely to be greater with IR heating, hence requireing more 'wattage' for a given amount of'heating effect'.

It's a complex issue and generalisations are not particularly helpful. The relative advantages and disadvantages will obviously vary from situation to situation, and according to what one is trying to achieve, but "Infra red panels are half the wattage for same heating effect as storage heaters" is a statement which really cannot be justified as a generalisation. "Half the wattage for the same heating effect" implies that heat losses (or, at least, 'heat wastage') would also be halved - and it is by no means a foregone conclusion that such would often be the case. Indeed, it would not surprise me if some people, with some rooms, would actually require 'more wattage' with IR heating in order to achieve what they regarded as being an equally comfortable environment to that they would have if using convection-based heating.

Kind Regards, John

Lancelot1 said:

Hi john. Infra red radiation heats the objects it points at and not the air. Just like when the sun is out on a ski slope you are warm despite the air being cold. Storage heaters work on convection heating the air. If someone opens the front door that air escapes but infra red keeps you warm. You can get big panels as mirrors on the walls or as pictures. Best to have them mounted on ceiling aiming their radiation on all the objects in the room and heating up the floor and walls. The floor and walls will then heat the air as secondary heating. Google storage heaters vs infra red heaters.
L

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Although I cannot dispute your statements, my experience of IR heating is poor.
I started working in a workshop which was simply a farm building 9x7m with a supposedly insulated apex roof starting at 2.4m and rising to 6.2m. there were 2 3KW IR wall mounted heaters mounted abour 3m high, essentially pointing to 2 'work benches' it got unbearably hot working under them but the steel panel back plates and our tools never warmed up. Neither did the space immediately adjacent to the bench
The empty 'office' next door had a pile of oilfilled radiators. Placing one under the bench and one each side was far more comfortable all round and at 800W each more economical too.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying 6 radiators heated the space, they certainly did not but they did create a useable environment.