Making Old Storage Heaters Smart

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We have a small flat in Glasgow. On the Economy 7 plan with storage heaters but they've been pretty useless. Waste a ton of energy by letting out so much heat during the day when no one is in - and with the temperature changing so drastically from one day to the other - no real way to track/adjust each day. With it bouncing between too hot and too cold. The amount we're paying (1500per year) seems to match up to a 5bed house rather than a 2 bed flat.

Just trying to figure out what the best option is.

The heaters are old Dimplex CXL's.

Would wiring them up to a wifi+weather report and automating them be possible?
 
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how many kWh do you actually use in a year

- at peak rate?
- at off-peak rate?

Are you usually at home during the day?

Is your flat modern and well-insulated?
 
how many kWh do you actually use in a year

- at peak rate?
- at off-peak rate?

Are you usually at home during the day?

Is your flat modern and well-insulated?

It didn't differentiate it on the annual report - 10,500kWh per year total.

Not sure on insulation, there's no drafts. Fairly modern conversion (1989). No one is usually in during the day Mon-Fri
 
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It didn't differentiate it on the annual report - 10,500kWh per year total.
That's not an awful lot - I use around 8,000 kWh per year, without any electric space heating or electric cooking (only electric water heating).

However, if you're on an Economy 7 tariff, youyr bills and statements must differentiate between peak and off-peak ('day' and 'nigh') kWh, since the prices are very different.

Kind Regards, John
 
There are better ways to store heat, but they need room, one method is water, but water is heavy, and bulky. My brother-in-law had a water store, it was used to store excess energy from using the wood burner in the evening, and also solar panels and also if required LPG gas boiler to heat the house through one combined central heating system, there were two large tanks so around 1.5 x 3 meters of floor space used, and very expensive to install.

The cupboard was allocated as the house was built, with the support required for such a high weight, personally I feel likely not worth the money to install.

So over the years the benefits of off peak have reduced, so you need to re-assess if still worth using off peak power, it may be better to use simple panel heaters as an when required, but the calculation is not easy.

This house not that well insulated, draft proof, but old double glassed windows really need changing for the new more energy retaining type, last house we lived in was Mother's old house it was very well insulated. With her old house, boiler would run in morning and the temperature tended to over shoot a little so switched off 10 am and would not switch on again until around 6 pm, this house the boiler runs on/off all day, so Mothers house would have stayed warm with storage heaters, this house would not.

If it were me, I would try an experiment, I would use a cheap 2 kW heater and an energy meter all simply plugged in, instead of the storage heaters for a week and see what energy they have used. Also note the total energy used, and compare with the storage heaters, as there are so many factors it is near impossible to calculate if cheaper using heaters as and when required, remember if you get rid of economy 7 the on peak power in the main is cheaper. Clearly it needs some hunting to find costs.

So if you can say 50 kWh used in week with panel heaters, and 70 kWh with storage then you can work out which is cheaper. Other wise it is just guess work.
 
There are better ways to store heat, but they need room, one method is water, but water is heavy, and bulky. My brother-in-law had a water store, it was used to store excess energy from using the wood burner in the evening, and also solar panels and also if required LPG gas boiler to heat the house through one combined central heating system, there were two large tanks so around 1.5 x 3 meters of floor space used, and very expensive to install.

The cupboard was allocated as the house was built, with the support required for such a high weight, personally I feel likely not worth the money to install.

So over the years the benefits of off peak have reduced, so you need to re-assess if still worth using off peak power, it may be better to use simple panel heaters as an when required, but the calculation is not easy.

This house not that well insulated, draft proof, but old double glassed windows really need changing for the new more energy retaining type, last house we lived in was Mother's old house it was very well insulated. With her old house, boiler would run in morning and the temperature tended to over shoot a little so switched off 10 am and would not switch on again until around 6 pm, this house the boiler runs on/off all day, so Mothers house would have stayed warm with storage heaters, this house would not.

If it were me, I would try an experiment, I would use a cheap 2 kW heater and an energy meter all simply plugged in, instead of the storage heaters for a week and see what energy they have used. Also note the total energy used, and compare with the storage heaters, as there are so many factors it is near impossible to calculate if cheaper using heaters as and when required, remember if you get rid of economy 7 the on peak power in the main is cheaper. Clearly it needs some hunting to find costs.

So if you can say 50 kWh used in week with panel heaters, and 70 kWh with storage then you can work out which is cheaper. Other wise it is just guess work.

Thanks, I think oil-filled panel heaters may be the way to go. Hopefully I get my smart-metre fitted soon and I can see where all this money is going!
 
There are better ways to store heat, but they need room, one method is water, but water is heavy, and bulky.
Rather 'off-topic' ... water is undoubtedly versatile and, if my memory serves me correctly, is not particularly 'bulky' (in comparison with alternatives), primarily because the thermal capacity (specific heat) of water is so high ...

... if my memory is correct, I think that the thermal capacity of water is around 5 times higher than that of brick/concrete/blocks etc, but is only 2-3 times less dense than those materials. If that is the case, then it probably only needs roughly half the volume ('bulk') of water to store the same amount of heat than would be the case with bricks etc. (as in storage heaters etc.) However, I might be wrong!

Kind Regards, John
 
In the main we limit water temperature to 100 degrees C but bricks can be 400 degrees C so if they store half the amount of energy per degree C that's double the energy stored per unit weight.

This is also why water is better, insulating a heat bank of 100 degrees C needs less insulation to a heat bank at 400 degrees C.

But main problem is space
 
In the main we limit water temperature to 100 degrees C but bricks can be 400 degrees C so if they store half the amount of energy per degree C that's double the energy stored per unit weight.
Good point - but do the bricks really get that hot?

Kind Regards, John
 
Cheaper to replace with conventional heaters and heat only rooms you occupy..
 
I was told designed to work with some parts hitting 900 degrees C however I would not expect the whole brick area to get that hot, think that is likely core of the element temperature.

I think likely swapping to simple panel heaters and not having E7 is likely best option as least when unoccupied during the day.
 
... I think likely swapping to simple panel heaters and not having E7 is likely best option as least when unoccupied during the day.
... but one has to be careful these days before getting rid of E7 ....

... as I have reported (and as is the same with someone else here), whether due to a mistake oi their part or whatever, and although I didn't even notice this when I singed up, with my present E7 tariff even the day usage is slightly cheaper than with a single-rate tariff - so it really is a "can't loose" situation!

Kind Regards, John
 
[QUOTE="jwaters148, post: 4485675,]Hopefully I get my smart-metre fitted soon and I can see where all this money is going![/QUOTE]

You don’t need a smart meter for that. Just read your existing meter regularly. Think hard before getting a smart meter. There are many reasons not to get one. Have a read about it on these forums.
 

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