can't test the voltage on DC appliance

Yes its a 12V DC to 230/40 AC invertor and yes I would still need the transformer that came with the mixer to power it up

Unfortunitly that mixer you linked in the add has no built in EQ or effects
 
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Yes its a 12V DC to 230/40 AC invertor and yes I would still need the transformer that came with the mixer to power it up ... Unfortunitly that mixer you linked in the add has no built in EQ or effects
I didn't look at its features, and I probably wouldn't understand them (or know your requirements) if I did. It was just one of three I clicked on at random on that site, all in a similar price range, and 2 out of those 3 had 12V DC inputs - so I strongly suspect that, if you looked around, you'd probably find one that suited your requirements (feature/performance-wise) which could be run directly from 12V DC - which would be much simpler (and maybe even cheaper) than some of the alternatives being contemplated.

Anyway, it was just a thought!

Kind Regards, John
 
One popular way to get DC from AC was to half wave rectify two AC windings. The Paris Rhone car alternator did that, three diodes, and two single phase windings, so the two diodes resulted in each winding giving a half wave but together it was full wave. The third diode worked field and warning light.

So supplying a single 14.8 volt DC supply to one input will likely result in correct voltage, but the diode would get twice the duty cycle. So it could burn out the diode.

Computers often had +12, -12, and +5 volt not a clue why, but again hard to get that supply from batteries.

So it is either open it up and do some reverse engineering or use a 230 volt supply even if that supply is from an inverter.
 
Computers often had +12, -12, and +5 volt not a clue why ....
(and also 3.3V) +12V for fans and the motors of drives, -12V for serial (RS232) interfaces (virtually a dead requirement) and 5V (and 3.3V) for all the electronics (logic, CPU etc.).

It seems that in the last few years, a few manufacturers have move to +12V only systems, with the 5V and 3.3V being produced by dc-dc converters on the motherboard.

So it is either open it up and do some reverse engineering or use a 230 volt supply even if that supply is from an inverter.
... or, as I've said, replace the unit with one can that be powered directly from 12V DC - which, as well as the simplest (and lightest!) option, might even be the cheapest.

Kind Regards, John
 
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One popular way to get DC from AC was to half wave rectify two AC windings. The Paris Rhone car alternator did that, three diodes, and two single phase windings, so the two diodes resulted in each winding giving a half wave but together it was full wave. The third diode worked field and warning light.

So supplying a single 14.8 volt DC supply to one input will likely result in correct voltage, but the diode would get twice the duty cycle. So it could burn out the diode.

Computers often had +12, -12, and +5 volt not a clue why, but again hard to get that supply from batteries.

So it is either open it up and do some reverse engineering or use a 230 volt supply even if that supply is from an inverter.
As far as I remeber the car altenator was/ is AC and would have a set of diodes wired up inside to force the electric in one direction to DC. I dont know how this mixer circut board works though and I dont fancy the idea of making up such circuits, but I have a wee diagram I will upload soon!

The power supplies found inside PC towers have 12v, 5v and varius other DC volt ouputs, now there's a good little invertor for 99p from ebay, think about it all those old PCs sold at starting bid price of 99p but needs new oporating system to work (in other words the hard drive or motherboard in fked), could buy one of those for 99p and there is your invertor, there is your mains car charge

But as I said before I do have a working 150W invertor found hear https://www.screwfix.com/p/ring-pow...1JDQvB3weq0Ju4tIv5BoCsAIQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds only problem with it is it cuts off early when there is still long life in the battary
 
... or, as I've said, replace the unit with one can that be powered directly from 12V DC - which, as well as the simplest (and lightest!) option, might even be the cheapest.

Kind Regards, John
not if I allreay have invertor battery and mains charge for it, it wont!
 
Very true.

The AC input into the mixer must get turned into DC within it, to power the electronics, so if one had the knowledge and took the thing to pieces, one could probably adapt it to run off batteries (albeit probably quite large ones). Alternatively, but again requiring knowledge and ability, one could devise an 'inverter' which changed the DC from a (again, perhaps quite large) battery into the AC voltages required by your desk.

I have to say, it's a pretty unusual set-up (to have a transformer supplying fairly low voltage AC to a piece of equipment {which ultimately needs DC}), and can't help but wonder why they've done it like that.

Kind Regards, John
This is not at all unusual of this type of equipment. I have very little insight into the internal workings of Behringer kit but fairly extensive knowledge of older Soundcraft kit (FX, SX & notepad) In these there is a 17-0-17V ac supply feeding a bridge rectifier providing + & - 21V which is then smoothed and regulated to + & - 17V to feed the op-amps. however there is one other little catch, the phantom power for the microphones is 48Vdc. This is achieved by passing the 2 phases of ac through capacitors (to provide dc isolation) and then fullwave rectified to 32V which is then added to the unregulated +21V supply, smoothed and regulated to +48V.

A couple of years ago I needed to use a mixer on battery and simply used 2 X 18V jel batteries (2 pairs of 12V 7AH & 6V 6AH) which worked well, except the phantom power was 11V but not needed.

Edit to 21V from my notes
 
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So I checked my computer to see if I have a circuit diagram for a soundcraft and sadly I don't, However I do for a Behrenger 1202 which is simply 2 more microphone inputs than OP's:
upload_2019-11-24_0-8-26.png

X1 pins 1&3 are the 2phase 15v supply, pin 2 is neutral
 

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not if I allreay have invertor battery and mains charge for it, it wont!
Well, no cheaper, if you already have everything you'd need - but I thought you implied that the battery was not really suitable? In any event, if if not cheaper, it would be appreciably less to lug around - although only you can now what is right/best for you?

Kind Regards, John
 
This is not at all unusual of this type of equipment. I have very little insight into the internal workings of Behringer kit but fairly extensive knowledge of older Soundcraft kit (FX, SX & notepad) In these there is a 17-0-17V ac supply feeding a bridge rectifier providing + & - 21V which is then smoothed and regulated to + & - 17V to feed the op-amps.....
Fair enough, but I still don't understand why that needs a 17-0-17V supply?
.... however there is one other little catch, the phantom power for the microphones is 48Vdc. This is achieved by passing the 2 phases of ac through capacitors (to provide dc isolation) and then fullwave rectified to 32V which is then added to the unregulated +21V supply, smoothed and regulated to +48V.
That one I linked to also had 48V DC of 'phantom power' (a concept I'm unfamiliar with!), but that one is definitely powered with 12V DC - so the 48V must presumably be created by an internal dc-dc up-converter.

Kind Regards, John
 
(For the curious) phantom power is needed to make condenser mikes work. Most domestic types have batteries in them, most professional ones don't.
 
What is being termed "Phantom Porwer" in these circuits appears to be voltage derived from a "Voltage Multipler" circuit utilising 3 (sets of) capacitors - and, hence, would be a "Voltage Tripler".
(https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/blog/voltage-multiplier-circuit.html)

Of course, the current supplied in this way would be quite low.

Correct.
Not knowing the the knowledge base of partcipants of this thread, I had kept the explanations rather basic. This is a full wave voltage trippler rather than the more usual half wave version.
The 48V is supplied to each mic input by a resistor of typically 4K7Ω to 10KΩ so across a 12 i/p desk we are only looking at 20mA or so.
Fair enough, but I still don't understand why that needs a 17-0-17V supply?
That one I linked to also had 48V DC of 'phantom power' (a concept I'm unfamiliar with!), but that one is definitely powered with 12V DC - so the 48V must presumably be created by an internal dc-dc up-converter.

Kind Regards, John
'Most sound desks' use op-amps as their active components which run most successfully on a dual supply rail of 15V, the easiest way to derive this from the mains is a 2 phase ac secondary and full wave rectification. Using the voltage doubler/tripler for the 48V phantom is also easy.
To do all of this from a single 12V supply does require some form of inversion to ac followed by rectification etc which also tends to add noise which is one of the things we try to avoid in pro audio kit
 
To do all of this from a single 12V supply does require some form of inversion to ac followed by rectification

Been there, three days before an outdoor event it was realised there was no way to get mains power for the public address system

The solution was packaged DC to DC convertors such as THESE for the +/- 15 volt supply.

For the 48 volt supply a third DC to DC would be needed.

As Sunray has pointed out DC to DC convertors will create electrical noise and therefore additional filtering is necessary. Using two separate convertors for the +15 and -15 supplies can result in low frequency noise ( beat note from the two high frequencies produced by the convertors ) that is difficult to suppress.
 
Been there, three days before an outdoor event it was realised there was no way to get mains power for the public address system

The solution was packaged DC to DC convertors such as THESE for the +/- 15 volt supply.

For the 48 volt supply a third DC to DC would be needed.

As Sunray has pointed out DC to DC convertors will create electrical noise and therefore additional filtering is necessary. Using two separate convertors for the +15 and -15 supplies can result in low frequency noise ( beat note from the two high frequencies produced by the convertors ) that is difficult to suppress.
I have done frequent battery powered pa systems in the last 50years but mostly for fêtes and sports events where big mixers have not been required. So when I did need it it was very easy and zero cost to use a set of jel batteries as I also have spare power leads (replacements). It probably took 10 minutes to set up. I wasn't using any phantom power so gave that no consideration. My first thought was an inverter but the semi square wave was audible in the system.
 

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