Planning permission for converting car port to garage

chrissamuel · 24 Jan 2020

We would like to convert the existing brick and flat-roof car port to a garage. Its attached to the house and is on footings with a single course of bricks around the perimeter with several piers.

Permitted developments says we can alter walls as long as we don't use cladding. We have matching bricks so this could work. It also says we can't build in front of the existing elevation but the wall (although very open) is already there so can we legally consider what is already there this a wall/elevation? If not then we are building in front of the principal elevation and will need permission.

I'm not sure about adding a garage door.

The planners have not been helpful and have said it is a new extension even though its mostly already there.

tony1851 · 25 Jan 2020

If you are closing off the front of the carport with a door, it is development forward of the principal elevation and would need PP.

chrissamuel · 25 Jan 2020

Yes, but as the car port was built with the house and is made of brick supporting a roof, doesn't it form part of the principal elevation itself? The question is, does a low brick supporting wall with pillars constitute an 'elevation'?

chrissamuel · 25 Jan 2020

Also, the permitted development documents seem to suggest that enlargement forward of the principal elevation requires PP but we aren't enlarging the area or the habitable space so I don't think this applies?

Leofric · 25 Jan 2020

chrissamuel said:
The planners have not been helpful and have said it is a new extension even though its mostly already there.

If the planners have said it is classed as a new extension why don't you believe them

tony1851 · 25 Jan 2020

@op: if the garage door will be forward of the main part of the house, it will need planning permission.
The terminology in the legislation states "any wall forming a part of the front elevation"; if your carport is - say a couple of feet forward of the main house wall, anything you put in the opening of the carport (eg a door) will by definition be forward of the main house elevation, hence the need for PP.

chrissamuel · 25 Jan 2020

Leofric said:
If the planners have said it is classed as a new extension why don't you believe them

Because the footings, 'walls' and roof have been there since the property was built. Have you read the original post?

I am trying to work out if the planners are correct as they cannot seem to clarify why why they class something that is existing as enlargement of what us existing...

A definition of what a wall/elevation is would help but I cannot seem to find anything like that...

chrissamuel · 25 Jan 2020

tony1851 said:
@op: if the garage door will be forward of the main part of the house, it will need planning permission.
The terminology in the legislation states "any wall forming a part of the front elevation"; if your carport is - say a couple of feet forward of the main house wall, anything you put in the opening of the carport (eg a door) will by definition be forward of the main house elevation, hence the need for PP.

As far as I can tell, the principal elevation is the wall that I'd like to put the garage door on so I'm altering it rather than doing anything in front of it... There is a possibility that the wall isn't high or filled in enough enough to quality as an elevation, this is what I'm trying to confirm...

Leofric · 25 Jan 2020

A shelter for a car is usually called a car port if it has open sides. If you fill the sides in they become walls. The elevation ( front, rear ,side )is just the view of the house including walls, windows, roof etc. You must know what a brick wall is

chrissamuel · 25 Jan 2020

Leofric said:
A shelter for a car is usually called a car port if it has open sides. If you fill the sides in they become walls. The elevation ( front, rear ,side )is just the view of the house including walls, windows, roof etc. You must know what a brick wall is

Perhaps you can enlighten us all and actually answer the question... Is a footing with single course of bricks and several 9inch piers a brick wall (for planning purposes) or not?

tony1851 · 25 Jan 2020

@op, if you could post a sketch or pic of the frontage of the house you might get more specific responses.

Leofric · 25 Jan 2020

chrissamuel said:
Perhaps you can enlighten us all and actually answer the question... Is a footing with single course of bricks and several 9inch piers a brick wall (for planning purposes) or not?

Perhaps you could stop trying to be such a smartarse when you are asking for advice

Your question was :-

chrissamuel said:
There is a possibility that the wall isn't high or filled in enough enough to quality as an elevation, this is what I'm trying to confirm...

- and I explained what an elevation is. The front elevation of the property could include a tree in the front garden

I wouldn't call a single course of bricks a wall and brick piers are piers not a wall.

^woody^ · 26 Jan 2020

chrissamuel said:
question is, does a low brick supporting wall with pillars constitute an 'elevation'?

No chance.

Leofric · 27 Jan 2020

Can I have a final chance of avoiding the question please? The situation as I see it is that filling in the open sides of a car port to create a garage is classed as a new extension in planning terms ,as the Planners have said. (the planning department, if they are anything like around here, is probably understaffed and will neither have the time nor the inclination to argue about it when they have given the answer to the query from a householder !) If the car port projects beyond the front of the main house, which presumably is the principal elevation, then the 'new extension' cannot come under Permitted Development and requires Planning permission ( which is basically what Tony1851 said in post 6 I think ).
ps the garage door is filling in the front of the car port.

MMarve · 27 Jan 2020

Chaps, I have a low brick wall at the front of my garden. As that brick wall is clearly the principal elevation of my house, I am okay to build it up and put a flat roof on the join the rest of my house, right?

@op, you had answered the whole thread at the very beginning.

chrissamuel said:
The planners have not been helpful and have said it is a new extension even though its mostly already there.

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Planning permission for converting car port to garage

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