End of tether........

Morning, hope everyone is well. I wasn't sure which part to post in as my problems possibly cover a few areas, so i'll waffle on and see if anyone has had similar probs or solutions....

Moved into my top floor maisonette 15 months ago. This is my first property, so it's all a learning curve..

Not long after moving in I noticed that my clothes had started to smell foisty so I bought dehumidifier. During the summer months I mostly had all the windows open and tried to get as much air I as poss as the flat had been empty a while.

Cupboard where boiler is was quite foisty and bathroom smell foisty smell on floor and vanity unit ( no visible water anywhere). I had a plumber come and check for leaks etc and he could not find anything. ( the soil stack from the down stairs goes through this cupboard, through my loft to the roof).

Smell beginning to drive me a little crazy so I paid for a damp survey. This revealed that I had no damp bit he suggested good ventilation, so on his recommendation I had a fan fitted in bathrrom, new double glazing with trickle vents ( which I had planned to invest in anyway), a cooker hood.
He suggested getting someone to check the loft to make sure I had enough insulation. ( im not DIY orientated atall as you may gather from my waffling). So a friend came and looked in loft and the front grills were stuffed with insulation which we untucked to create a cross flow. Noticed wetness on the eave wall, so pulled the insulation back there. The soil stack mentioned about had a towel stuffed around the top- friend suggested seeing if dried out as was prob condensation and this could be why the cupboard stinks. ( that has been scrubbed out with bleach several times even though theres no visible damp anywhere). HE said to get a builder to double check.
So I had a builder come and check. He said he thought I had enough insulation and would bring a a big ladder to look at the roof ( are you asleep yet?)….. waited and waited and couldn't get hold of him again so I called another builder, explaining what the last one had said......he came and looked in loft and said everything looked ok and that I could possibly need more insulation and he didn't bring a ladder ( even though I pointed out what last said) and would come back with ladder......didn't and coudlnt get hold of him! floor in bathroom occasionaly swelled a bit and they had pointed out if there was a prob with the roof, it codl trickle down the wall to the floor...

So.… I put a post on FB asking if anyone could recommend a builder/roofer.....I got in touch of one who I contacted one who I had also double checked was on one of those builder recommended sites as I was starting to be distrusting! I described my prob to him and he suggested that the flashing around the soil stack could be broken and said this could be where it was getting in to the cupboard/floor ( its never really really wet). HE came and replaced flashing and said there was a crack in it. HE suggested that the dry ridges also needed replacing or fixing. so he came back and did those. it seemed that when it was raining the smell in the bathroom became worse and I would have to have the dehumidifier in the bedroom on more.

This was about 8 weeks ago. Ive been monitoring and the smell in the batroom doesn't appear AS bad apart from if it has been really cold, can smell it more( it never actually goes away).

Other things ive notice- I can see my loft beams through the plaster in the ceiling. These seem to be worse. Various sites/forums have suggested that this could be due to a lack of insulation in the loft and is condensation?

My bedroom carpet ( next to my side of the bed) smells foisty and part of my lounge does too. The floor never feels wet to me but it does feel cold. I noticed there is no underlay under my carpet ( which was here when I moved in). The flat below has no central heating. He only has a gas heater at the front of his lounge. I have central heating.
Is the probs with my clothes ( feistiness) de to condensation and because theres not enough insulation from my loft or between the flats....

Ive got those dehumidifier bags everywhere and im spending a fortune on keeping the electric one going. Ive also spent a fortue on the repair so far to the roof and getting various people to look!

Theres no visible mould anywhere but the smell is getting me down ( im asthamstic too and sometimes can feel on my chest).

I know ive gone on and on and builders cant come at the minute....has anyone else experienced any of this and can give me some pointers? I don't want to keep wasting money if its not helping


Thanks for listening. Ive bored myself!

I know I'm locked in at home but ..... bullet points would be great.

How deep is the insulation the loft?

Buy a humodity meter, they're on Amazon for less than a tenner. That'll tell you if you do have too much water in the air.

If you're drying clothes in the flat then the water has to leave somehow. That either means a tumble drier that pushes the hot wet air out the house or some sort of condensing one. If you're hanging them inside then that water needs to get out somehow. That'd be your dehumidifier or leaving windows open.

Find out where the water is coming from, everything else follows.

The dehumidifier bags are rubbish. Your electric one will be doing far more and probably far cheaper.

IT Minion said:

That'll tell you if you do have too much water in the air

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What's too much?

^woody^ said:

What's too much?

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70% + as a rule of thumb I believe.

AMCGENN said:

my clothes had started to smell foisty

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Musty?

I paid for a damp survey. This revealed that I had no damp bit he suggested good ventilation, so on his recommendation I had a fan fitted in bathrrom, new double glazing with trickle vents ( which I had planned to invest in anyway), a cooker hood.

Click to expand...

Wow, I think you found one of the few good “damp surveyors”; that advice is all good. You must have (and use!) extractors in the bathroom and kitchen. The other question is how do you dry clothes? You mustn’t hang them over radiators, or similar, unless in a very well ventilated room (e.g. the bathroom with the fan on). Use an outside washing line or get a drier.

I can see my loft beams through the plaster in the ceiling. These seem to be worse. Various sites/forums have suggested that this could be due to a lack of insulation in the loft and is condensation?

Click to expand...

That is likely the result of condensation where the colder beams are - but it could be old and won’t go away until you repaint. Yes, add some more insulation in the loft; you should fill between the joists and then put another layer over the top of everything. Required total depth is 270mm I believe.

Regarding the work on the roof, I’d suggest always asking for photos when it is suggested that work is needed in a location you can’t see. These days everyone has a phone camera and an honest builder will have no objection.

I second the idea of getting a cheap digital humidity meter; it’s useful for e.g. comparing one room with another, and maybe when we’re allowed out even comparing with other houses.

Hopefully there will be less of a problem during the summer when it’s warmer!

AMCGENN said:

smell foisty

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Check all of your waste traps (or the lack of them). Or try blocking them off with a plug or gaffer tape for a day or two and see if this makes a difference. Be sure to check them all including any secluded washing machine upstands etc.

Don't forget the overflow holes.

Are you living in the roof space?

catlad said:

Are you living in the roof space?

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no, first floor flat. Last night temp was very cold and even though heating on it was very cold in here( maybe there isn't enough insulation and that's causing condensation)?

noseall said:

Check all of your waste traps (or the lack of them). Or try blocking them off with a plug or gaffer tape for a day or two and see if this makes a difference. Be sure to check them all including any secluded washing machine upstands etc.

Don't forget the overflow holes.

Click to expand...

I had someone check all this already!

^woody^ said:

What's too much?

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50% RH is considered normal indoors, give or take 10%.

When I test my rooms, that's what they are.

IT Minion said:

If you're drying clothes in the flat then the water has to leave somehow. If you're hanging them inside then that water needs to get out somehow.

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A friend of mine owns several flats that she lets out and has been doing it for years. Whenever a tenant moves out, the places are mouldy and need a thorough cleaning, decorating and airing. She says for some strange reason, renters never open the bloody windows

endecotp said:

Musty?



Wow, I think you found one of the few good “damp surveyors”; that advice is all good. You must have (and use!) extractors in the bathroom and kitchen. The other question is how do you dry clothes? You mustn’t hang them over radiators, or similar, unless in a very well ventilated room (e.g. the bathroom with the fan on). Use an outside washing line or get a drier.



That is likely the result of condensation where the colder beams are - but it could be old and won’t go away until you repaint. Yes, add some more insulation in the loft; you should fill between the joists and then put another layer over the top of everything. Required total depth is 270mm I believe.

Regarding the work on the roof, I’d suggest always asking for photos when it is suggested that work is needed in a location you can’t see. These days everyone has a phone camera and an honest builder will have no objection.

I second the idea of getting a cheap digital humidity meter; it’s useful for e.g. comparing one room with another, and maybe when we’re allowed out even comparing with other houses.

Hopefully there will be less of a problem during the summer when it’s warmer!

Click to expand...

Thankyou- i've ordered a digital humidity meter last night. I will measure the insulation.

He took photos after and showed me the crack in the flashing but of course, I woudlnt be able to tell in hindsight and put good faith in him because of his reviews/rcommendations.

Mottie said:

A friend of mine owns several flats that she lets out and has been doing it for years. Whenever a tenant moves out, the places are mouldy and need a thorough cleaning, decorating and airing. She says for some strange reason, renters never open the bloody windows

Click to expand...

My money is also on excessive humidity, it could be condensing somewhere it shouldn't.
The humidity should be low enough that none of the surfaces it touches are below the dew point.
So in a badly insulated house it could have to be 30% on a very cold day with high room temperatures, in a passive House you could have it all the way up to 75% with no issues whatsoever.
For the op I'd hope it's below 50% but it's a good idea to keep an eye on it over time. If something makes it spike then do something about that.

John D v2.0 said:

My money is also on excessive humidity

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Occupied heated homes don't smell mouldy.

99% of the time the smell emanates from waste pipes. Washing machines and syphoned waste traps are the biggest culprits, especially if the smell is strong and constant. It's usually too easy to overcome the smell of mould with simple occupation habits. Not so easy to rid the smell given off by dodgy wastes.