Two-Gang Extension wired into wall socket/spur

SmithHouse · 30 Mar 2020

Hi everyone, new to the forum and just bought my first house (what a time to do so). We knew the house needed a bit of work done and I had hoped to get the plumbing/electrics checked over by the correct trades people, but with everything going on at the moment that will likely have to be put on hold and i am plodding away with the visible rennovation. I do however have a few unsightly sockets/spurs that I would have liked to have removed, the biggest culprit being this chest-height extension wired in to the wall for where a wall mounted tv used to be. I had initially thought it was a spur from the socket below (picture 4) but that doesnt seem to be the case as the ground socket only has the two wires for the ring main. Also, i noticed the neutral appeared to not be attached in that socket (i removed very gently so sure it wasn't that, but should I reattach)

My question is - Can the extension can be disconnected from the back on this switch and the socket be closed back up until a later date when I can get an electrician to fully remove the spur? The other wire in the background isn't live but I cant guess where its running from, the socket below is where I assumed this was spurred from but it seems to only have the two wires of the ring mains. Thoughts?

Power is switched off at all times.

ericmark · 30 Mar 2020

Normally I would say get an electrician, however not normal times, so question is what have you got to test with.

What I am trying to do is work out how much you know, clearly some thing needs doing, I would disconnect the extension socket and replace original putting lose wires into some connector block to make safe. All clearly with power off.

AndyPRK · 30 Mar 2020

I think he only wants to remove the flex.

What does he need to test?

SmithHouse · 30 Mar 2020

Ive just got a cheap screwfix multimer to hand.
AndyPRK is right in that i just want to remove the two-gang for the time being.

Im not Very eager to start fiddling with the electrics but the extension is bugging me one week in. I will try order connector blocks tonight for that lose wire, cant figure why its there.

Sureitsoff? · 30 Mar 2020

the loose wires possibly were fed from the same terminals that the extension is now wired to. doesnt explain where it goes though!

endecotp · 30 Mar 2020

Simply removing the extension lead will not make it any worse than it currently is, so you can just do that now.

Note that the earth connections are dodgy. There are separate earth terminals on the faceplate and the backbox, which are joined via the screws. That is OK *only* when it’s just a metal faceplate that needs earthing. Otherwise there should be a length of wire joining the two earth terminals, or (possibly) all the earth wires should go to the same terminal.

I mention this mainly to say “watch out”; there will probably be other bodges that you’ve not found yet.

Jackrae · 30 Mar 2020

Photo 1 has no effective earth connected to the socket (you cannot rely on the face-plate screws) Also there are disconnected live and neutral wires lying in the back of the box. Although they may have originally been connected as part of a ring circuit, you must not assume that is/was the case. You should not simply connect them to the L and N connections at the socket since you do not know what's at the other end of the wires. You should take the prudent action of terminating them in individual wago connectors or single terminal blocks. An electrician to perform testing required as soon as possible. This may be classed as an 'emergency' as you clearly have identified an unsafe situation.

SmithHouse · 30 Mar 2020

Thanks!

Yeah the two earths connected to the back box and socket seperately (pic 4) are on the bottom socket (ring mains), is this worse or just as bodge-y? Also should i make sure that neutral is firmly reconnected in the back of the faceplate?
The internal of the "tv" socket is Pics 1&2. Will the fact it was meant as a dedicated TV power source explain the bodgeyness or is it just bad workmanship?

Their are signs in every room of half-arsed workmanship - e.g. they lowered a bedroom ceiling and left the bottom half of an above-door vent in...

The shower is wired via a boarded stair ceiling void that i was intending on removing but now cant and there is an electrice fire "outlet" which is just a capped wire sticking out the wall. Just as well i cant spend pennies just now, i've got a feeling I'll need them when this passes!

SmithHouse · 30 Mar 2020

Just seen your message Jackrae, i wasnt planning on reconnecting those Live and Neutral wires in 1 & 2 ("TV Socket") but I was planning on taking out the extension flex and not using that switch faceplate until I can get someone out - does this sound fine?

Jackrae · 30 Mar 2020

Nope ! You need to fit those loose wires into insulated terminations and connect a proper earth wire between the socket and the box terminal where the other two earths (CPC) are connected.

endecotp · 30 Mar 2020

SmithHouse said:
Yeah the two earths connected to the back box and socket seperately (pic 4) are on the bottom socket (ring mains)

It would be wise, I believe, to put all the earth wires in the same terminal.

SmithHouse · 31 Mar 2020

So I'm best to connect both earths to the back box? To clarify, this is in Picture 4 we're reffering to - the ring mains socket? Thanks!

terryplumb · 31 Mar 2020

SmithHouse said:
So I'm best to connect both earths to the back box? To clarify, this is in Picture 4 we're reffering to - the ring mains socket? Thanks!

Connect the earth conductors to the earth terminal on the socket plate. You can add an additional linking earth cable from the socket to the back box ,but that's not imperative.
There is also a loose conductor in the back box ,looks like coloured red insulation ,do not connect that to anything ,just terminate it in a wago or other insulated terminal block.
The same applies to the one in pic 1
Connect all earth conductors to the earth terminal on the FCU ,and individually terminate the loose conductors in wagos.
You should engage an electrician as soon as you can to check out the installation.

SmithHouse · 31 Mar 2020

Thankyou, so to make sure i've got it 100%:
1) Take Earth Conductor that is connected to back box of Socket and connect to the socket plate (along with the earth already connected to it).
2) Wago/terminate the loose conductors in both backboxes with insulated terminals.
3) In the FCU, take the three Earth Conductors and connect them to the earth terminal on the FCU Plate?

Looking at stores that are still open for terminal blocks heres my rough options, what is best?
https://www.diy.com/departments/wag...line-wire-connector-pack-of-50/1510405_BQ.prd

https://www.screwfix.com/p/16a-terminal-strips-pack-of-10/91532

I have contacted several electricians, I've even got a distant family friend whos an electrician, but at the moment with everything going on no one wants to even do a visit with me out the house etc. Hopefully sort something in next few weeks but dont know how likely restrictions are to relax (not much i think).
There are only two sockets in the main bedroom and this ring mains is one of them so eager to have safe. Thanks for all the help so far!!

terryplumb · 31 Mar 2020

With regard to question 3 ,I can only see 2 earth conductors to connect to the FCU's earth terminal. Unless the third is the one that's going to be removed.
Other than that your right.
Please bear in mind that metal switches / sockets etc have to be earthed and all the earth conductors present would be connected together in their earth terminals ideally.
As regards to being safe ,without suitable testing equipment and inspection you will not know the true picture. Removing the cable from the FCU that's hanging down ( your original question) is simplistic ,it's the loose and disconnected conductors and dodgy earthing etc that's the overall concern.with the advice given above by all the contributors ,you will be improving the situation, not making things worse.
As a footnote ,if the sockets are on a ring final circuit ,and one of the live conductors are disconnected ,the ring is broken and unable to safely carry the same level of current. Just for info !!

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Two-Gang Extension wired into wall socket/spur

SmithHouse

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ericmark

AndyPRK

SmithHouse

Sureitsoff?

endecotp

Jackrae

SmithHouse

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endecotp

SmithHouse

terryplumb

SmithHouse

terryplumb

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