Retaining wall collapsing

paulweller84 · 30 Mar 2020

Hi all,

I am looking for some suggestions on what could be done about the problem shown in the attached images. The gardens that neighbour my rear garden are around 1m higher with a retaining wall holding everything back. Over time the wall has started to rotate on the footing and I am concerned that it may come crashing down into our garden.

We are currently looking into who's responsibility the wall is as I was under the impression the owner of the land pushing the wall over was liable to fix any issues like this. Either way, I'd like to understand the technicalities of the issue and what could be done, regardless of liability.

If it turns out it is my responsibility after all, I don't have much of a budget to play with so need to know if this is an expensive job!

Thanks

bobasd · 31 Mar 2020

Have you spoken to your neighbour's about this - or taken any legal advice?

Who actually owns the wall - has that ever been established?
Likewise, do you know who built the wall.
Has the boundary of your property been legally established?

Probably a party wall issue ref responsibility?
The Legal issues forum on here next to Building might be a better bet for info?

How high does the land go beyond your neighbours property - does it go high up a hill?
Do you have rising land on this one side only?

ground water pressure & growing foliage etc. will topple a retaining wall.

Perhaps you can post pics of the neighbour's side of the wall.

My response fwiw: i dont know much about these issues, i only work on the tools.

^woody^ · 1 Apr 2020

It's your responsibility, more to the point the neighbour has a right to expect your wall to retain his land.

The wall has failed completely either at foundation level or because of the foundation, and will need rebuilding completely, and hope that the foundations themselves are adequate.

paulweller84 · 1 Apr 2020

^woody^ said:
more to the point the neighbour has a right to expect your wall to retain his land.

Who said it was my wall?

^woody^ · 1 Apr 2020

You have the lower ground. It's yours unless you have something explicit stating the contrary

paulweller84 · 1 Apr 2020

^woody^ said:
You have the lower ground. It's yours unless you have something explicit stating the contrary

Everything I find online says the contrary, that higher ground is responsible for keeping their ground back. Do you have a source anywhere for your statement? Some facts would be really useful on this subject.

^woody^ · 1 Apr 2020

paulweller84 said:
Everything I find online says the contrary, that higher ground is responsible for keeping their ground back. Do you have a source anywhere for your statement? Some facts would be really useful on this subject.

The fact is this.

Consider sloping ground, and you come along and want to build a house there. It is you that needs to excavate the ground for your house and garden, and its you that needs to support the neighbour's ground because of your excavation of the ground that was otherwise there supporting his land. You can't expect the neighbour to come around on to your land and build a wall (his wall) in your excavated ground.

All this is established in land and property law and precedent. The only way it wont be so is if you have a specific explicit agreement to the contrary.

Have you got the references that state otherwise? Where have you been looking? Not in law text I take it.

Charlie George · 1 Apr 2020

First google search found this,
a landowner who owns a retaining wall that supports his neighbour's higher land is subject to an implied (unless it is expressly stated in a deed) easement and owes a duty of support to his neighbour's land;

paulweller84 · 1 Apr 2020

^woody^ said:
Have you got the references that state otherwise? Where have you been looking? Not in law text I take it.

I haven’t managed to find anything that provides anything of a source, just multiple comments/forum posts etc where everyone says the liability is on the owner of the land pushing the wall. But your point does make sense for sure. I believe the wall could be a split boundary, and confusingly the fence on top is faced (with the boards) our way. Very confusing

bobasd · 2 Apr 2020

OP,
Whatever but I did ask you a few questions in my post?

bobasd · 2 Apr 2020

Charlie George (whatever happened to Golf?),
The onus of your quote might be "owns" as in "who owns"?

paulweller84 · 2 Apr 2020

bobasd said:
Who actually owns the wall - has that ever been established?
Likewise, do you know who built the wall.
Has the boundary of your property been legally established?

No, although our local planning department felt that it was most likely a split boundary when they visited the site. The wall was built by the developer who built all the houses in 1977. The boundary on the deeds is marked as a thick red line which doesn't help.

bobasd said:
How high does the land go beyond your neighbours property - does it go high up a hill?
Do you have rising land on this one side only?

They are sort of the top of the hill. The land is level the other side.

A similar issue occured at the front of the property a few years back and the guy who had that fixed noted that behind the facing wall was another wall which sat below the ground level. When they rebuilt the facing wall, they tied it back into the hidden wall.

^woody^ · 2 Apr 2020

paulweller84 said:
No, although our local planning department felt that it was most likely a split boundary when they visited the site. The wall was built by the developer who built all the houses in 1977. The boundary on the deeds is marked as a thick red line which doesn't help.

Planning department people know jack about property boundaries. What the hell is a split boundary for instance?

Who has the inverted T's on the deed plan? That's who would be responsible for maintaining whatever is on the boundary, however in this case the fence above the wall throws a spanner in the works as that may well be owned by the neighbours.

paulweller84 · 2 Apr 2020

^woody^ said:
What the hell is a split boundary for instance?

The centre of the wall marks the boundary, meaning half of the wall belongs to each side. That’s what they meant. The deeds don’t have markers on, that’s not a standard thing. Some have them, some don’t.

nickjb · 3 Apr 2020

Firstly, obviously the wall has failed, but it doesn't look too bad. Its quite hilly round here and there are plenty of walls worse than that still standing. Its not that high either. What's behind it? If the neighbours house is right there its a bigger issue than a load of garden. Also are there any trees? If their trees are knocking the wall over it may change the responsibilities a bit.

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Retaining wall collapsing

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