neighbour encroaching onto my garden

alim1 · 1 May 2020

hello all, hope you are all keeping safe and well.

i have a issue with my neighbours behind my back garden. i built my fencing years ago, leaving a gap of approx 18 inches from the existing concrete boundry posts/chain link fence for maintenance purposes.

recently a new person bought the property behind me and dug out the boundry posts without my knowledge and started to plant big plants right against my fencing! when i found out i asked them to reinstate the original posts on same location and after a heated discussion they have put the posts back without concreting them in and in less than half the distance back to where it should have been!

i have spoken to them again and they are insisting posts are on original location! but they are not, and unfortunately i did not take any pics when i did the fencing.

i don't know what steps i can take, as the problem was caused by them taking out the posts and chain link fence in the first place without consulting me!

^woody^ · 1 May 2020

alim1 said:
i don't know what steps i can take

You put them back or something else in their place where they should be, and put a little sign on them saying something like "I am the boundary line, don't move or cross me"

JohnD · 1 May 2020

If you neighbours are Jewish, or Fundamentalist Christians, refer them to Deuteronomy 27:17

mrrusty · 1 May 2020

i don't know what steps i can take

As woody says, it's technically your land so go onto it and reinstate the other fence - hopefully there is some sort of physical reference to help - like an adjoining boundary in line. However, you are on shifting sands if you don't have any evidence or photos and the line is unclear, because any boundaries shown on any registered title, unless they have been formally determined, are general. A difference of 18" is insignificant on a plan. There are some good sticky posts in the gardenlaw forum https://www.gardenlaw.co.uk/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=4 Although I have no direct experience of this, it seems from other forum posts that when a boundary is formally surveyed and determined, it is the features "on the ground" - fences, hedges, ditches which will be used to establish the boundary rather than any plans which will carry the most weight, and therefore it is easy to appreciate how boundaries can shift over time.

If the 18" the other side of what you have constructed as the fence line for usable garden is not used or easily accessible, and the other party wants to fight, you are going to have to seriously consider if the hassle is worth the fight. Remember, wherever there is a legal boundary dispute, there is a rich lawyer.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ans-boundaries-practice-guide-40-supplement-3

https://www.landregistry-titledeeds...estions/information/boundary-presumptions.asp

alim1 · 1 May 2020

Thanks for your comments all. Unfortunately they have done a very good job of removing everything and then dug up the garden. I am seriously thing about moving my whole fencing back to what i consider the boundry is, my fence panels can do with renewing as well.

sparkwright · 1 May 2020

I can understand why you left the gap between the two fences, so you can easily paint or repair the fence without disturbing the neighbour.

However, it must look naff for the neighbour, having to look at two fences, and possibly an 18" strip of land which may or may not get maintained. Maybe leaving this gap wasn't the best thing to do.

They have WRONGLY assumed that land is not yours or not wanted by you. I can understand their thoughtless thinking, but it doesn't make them correct.

You have left that strip of land vulnerable to get pinched.

One substantial wall or fence on the boundary makes the boundary clear for all to see.

Your neighbours should have questioned where the official boundary was before pulling the old fence down and taking your land.

As you say, the best thing to do is to move your new fence back to boundary line.

Best thing to do is fit concrete posts which last much longer, and make sure you have removable fence panels, presumably so they can be lifted out, so you can maintain them without going round to your neighbour.

alim1 · 1 May 2020

Thanks again for everyones advice, i know it may look like a petty thing to worry about, given the times we are living in. but the lack of manners and sheer rudeness is what upset me the most.
Thanks

sparkwright · 1 May 2020

Yes, they only had to ask.

Are there neighbours either side as well, which would make the boundary line all the more obvious to the neighbours behind?

alim1 · 1 May 2020

The garden in the back is a rectangle shape, myself and the neighbours either side of me, back our 3 gardens onto the back garden if that makes sense? One of my side neighbour built a brick shed set back from boundary and the other has fencing set back same as mine.

nickjb · 2 May 2020

To be honest, if I bought a house in that situation I'd assume the fence was the boundary and then do whatever I liked on my side. I don't think the neighbour has done much wrong there. Obviously if they were subsequently rude about it after being told then that is another matter.

motorbiking · 2 May 2020

Its not petty, when you think how much you pay for your home and plot. Your mistake was annexing your land to start. See if you can get a detailed map of your plot and theirs from the Land registry and take measurements. You are going to need to convince them to back down before it escalates.

mrrusty · 2 May 2020

See if you can get a detailed map of your plot and theirs from the Land registry and take measurements

The land registry does not hold detailed maps and never has done. The red lines indicating a general boundary on LR title plans are often to scale 1m wide. 18" difference cannot be measured from plans. Even if a previous deed said something like "the plot is 200 feet long" there would be an assumed tolerance. Features on the ground move over time. If anyone ever goes legal to have a boundary determined it is the features on the ground which carry the most weight, and there is a reasonable presumption that when people fence or wall in their property, they do it to the extent of their property.

The exact scenario here happens all the time with new housing estates - the developer comes along and puts a nice new fence around the development, inevitably inside the old fences along the boundary. Over time the neighbours take down their old fences and the developers fence becomes the boundary. Properties change hands, and in the future no-one would be able to reasonably show the developers fence wasn't the boundary that everybody had assumed was the boundary when properties were bought and sold.

bernardgreen · 2 May 2020

A historical aerial photograph may help to resolve the problem. There are several sources of historical aerial photographs ( most charge a fee ).

This is one of those sites http://ncap.org.uk

motorbiking · 2 May 2020

mrrusty said:
The land registry does not hold detailed maps and never has done. The red lines indicating a general boundary on LR title plans are often to scale 1m wide. 18" difference cannot be measured from plans. Even if a previous deed said something like "the plot is 200 feet long" there would be an assumed tolerance. Features on the ground move over time. If anyone ever goes legal to have a boundary determined it is the features on the ground which carry the most weight, and there is a reasonable presumption that when people fence or wall in their property, they do it to the extent of their property.

The exact scenario here happens all the time with new housing estates - the developer comes along and puts a nice new fence around the development, inevitably inside the old fences along the boundary. Over time the neighbours take down their old fences and the developers fence becomes the boundary. Properties change hands, and in the future no-one would be able to reasonably show the developers fence wasn't the boundary that everybody had assumed was the boundary when properties were bought and sold.

Yes but this is about convincing someone, not starting a boundary dispute. There may well be detailed drawing that can be used.

leegsi · 2 May 2020

Does google maps go in close enough to show the old line still?

diynot

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.

Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

neighbour encroaching onto my garden

Similar threads