No breaker between meter and consumer unit

jacoscar · 23 Jun 2020

Hello, I don't have a braker or switch between the meter and the consumer unit and the meter doesn't have a switch, so I don't have any way to switch the supply off to the CU in case any work needs to be done (apart from the main switch in the CU).

My current energy provider has offered to install new smart meters; would that be a good occasion to have a switch installed and who should do that?

As another query, does anyone know if the smart meters fitted by E-ON have a pulse output?

333rocky333 · 23 Jun 2020

Do you really need a switch, how often do you think you would actually use it.
There has been cases here where people have supplied a switch themselves and asked them kindly to do it.

EFLImpudence · 23 Jun 2020

jacoscar said:
My current energy provider has offered to install new smart meters;

Very kind of them to "offer".

They are doing it on Government instructions with negligible benefit to you - other than you might bet your switch fitted.

winston1 · 23 Jun 2020

There are lots of reasons to refuse their offer. Several threads on that in these forums.

winston1 · 23 Jun 2020

jacoscar said:
As another query, does anyone know if the smart meters fitted by E-ON have a pulse output?

What do you mean by that? The output of a smart meter will be standard 240v 50Hz AC.

jacoscar · 23 Jun 2020

winston1 said:
What do you mean by that? The output of a smart meter will be standard 240v 50Hz AC.

It’s a signal that outputs the actual consumption, often an LED that blinks every Wh consumed (which I’m using on my current meter to report data to my home automation system)
I just want to understand if I’ll lose/maintain that functionality or gain it on the gas meter

ericmark · 23 Jun 2020

There is a relay built into a Smart meter, however I have asked about who and how it is used, it would make sense if the fire brigade could ring up a central control and get power switched off to a house, so they don't need to pull the DNO fuse, however it seems this is not the case, and they can't actually give a good reason why the relay is fitted, in other countries like France you have a upper limit on power use, and going over the limit means it costs you money, or it trips, and the idea of a trip rather than fuse blowing does have some benefits, but only if it can be remotely reset, and it seems they can't remotely reset the relay, for health and safety reasons, some one must attend to switch it back on. So why have it? They say it will not be used to switch off power for non payment etc. However there have been cases of getting the wrong premises, so I can see no advantage to user on having a Smart meter.

I have had an isolator fitted, one should not really open a live distribution unit to work on it without isolating elsewhere, HSE rules not BS7671, however in real terms how often do you work in a consumer unit? At one point the DNO did provide isolators, without an isolator you have a good excuse to remove the DNO fuse, and clearly they don't want you to have that excuse, so once the isolator is fitted that excuse is removed. However if you fit the isolator then you need the power off to work on the isolator, so it does not really help.

jacoscar · 23 Jun 2020

In Italy we also have limited power: 3kW, 4.5kW and so on and the meter has a built in MCB which disconnects when the consumption exceed what you’re paying for; you don’t have to call the provider to reactivate it, you just switch it on yourself

and it has been like this even before smart meters existed.

Anyway, what I care about is the ability to monitor electricity and gas consumption real time, not by looking at some dumb display the energy provider gave me, but recording this data myself on my own database, as I’m currently doing by monitoring the LED on the electricity meter

Does anybody know what EON meters are like? (Maybe I should edit the topic title)

bernardgreen · 23 Jun 2020

ericmark said:
There is a relay built into a Smart meter

which could be used for selective dumping load when the demand of the supply network is approaching overload.

Examining a smart meter

OwainDIYer · 23 Jun 2020

ericmark said:
There is a relay built into a Smart meter, ... they can't actually give a good reason why the relay is fitted,

it's fitted so if you don't pay your bill they can put the meter remotely into prepay mode to collect the debt, and if you don't pay up the lights go off.

It has been known for them to put the meter into prepay mode accidentally, with the householder having no way of crediting the prepay account to keep the lights on.

oldbutnotdead · 24 Jun 2020

Yes there's the usual LED 1000 flashes = 1KwH. (Or there is on my BG smart meter)

jacoscar · 20 Aug 2020

They are swapping the meters on Monday and I'll try to get them to add a breaker I'll provide. What size of cables do I need between meter and breaker and consumer unit?

Harry Bloomfield · 20 Aug 2020

jacoscar said:
It’s a signal that outputs the actual consumption, often an LED that blinks every Wh consumed (which I’m using on my current meter to report data to my home automation system)
I just want to understand if I’ll lose/maintain that functionality or gain it on the gas meter

It will be maintained on the electric meter, but not on the gas meter. The gas meter runs entirely on a battery, so battery consumption has to be minimised.

Harry Bloomfield · 20 Aug 2020

jacoscar said:
They are swapping the meters on Monday and I'll try to get them to add a breaker I'll provide. What size of cables do I need between meter and breaker and consumer unit?

Your existing cables should be adequate. Mount your new isolator in a position so your existing tails will be long enough to be terminated in the top of the isolator, then the installer can simply transfer them across as part of the new meter install. The meter installer may be reluctant/ unwilling to get involved with fitting new tails from your consumer unit to your isolator. Tea and biscuits, plus a chair to sit on my help with the persuasion.

jacoscar · 20 Aug 2020

Harry Bloomfield said:
Your existing cables should be adequate. Mount your new isolator in a position so your existing tails will be long enough to be terminated in the top of the isolator, then the installer can simply transfer them across as part of the new meter install. The meter installer may be reluctant/ unwilling to get involved with fitting new tails from your consumer unit to your isolator. Tea and biscuits, plus a chair to sit on my help with the persuasion.

are you saying he will provide the additional tails?

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No breaker between meter and consumer unit

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