Part P course or Domestic Electrician, any advice hugely appreciated

Afternoon all,

I have a tendancy to ramble on - I'll try and keep short and sweet.

Recent changes with my self employment leave me wanting to add another string to my bow. I spent 30 months working on my 75% house rebuild/renovation, really enjoyed the experience (wife didn't ).

Please could someone advise me of the correct process to either become part P qualified (so I can take on projects such as kitchens and bathrooms with the ability to change and work on sockets/lights ((please correct me if this assumption of Part P is incorrect))....) or I'm reading I could jump straight into a Domestic Electrician course, thus enabling me to work on and gain experience from the CU inwards (again, please update me if incorrect).

Any searches just go straight to a few dozen training centres/on line, and I find it difficult to believe that in 18 days time I'm certified to go and work domestically? I like to be very thorough.

By no means do I want to insult anyone's hard graft and experience on here....I would love to become competent and qualified so I could advertise locally to work on domestic electrics, namely fitting new lights/sockets/extensions etc,I maybe even new installs/rewires in time- I don't want a shortcut into the trade. I still have my own self employment Flexi 3 days per week, but due to finance commitments, I can't warrant becoming an apprentice on apprentice monies for several years. Although 3 day a week working, I'm hoping will free up enough of the week so I can become domestically qualified.

Any help and advice much appreciated.

Thanks in advance...

Dean

r6deano said:

correct process to either become part P qualified

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No such thing.

Part P is one part of the Building Regulations. There is one requirement, which is this:



Some electrical work in dwellings is notifiable to building control, in the same way that installing new windows, installing a kitchen where there wasn't a kitchen before, installing heating appliances, ventilation, insulation, drainage and all the rest is.
That can be done directly to building control via a building notice or full plans.

Alternatively persons can be a member of a scheme such as those operated by NAPIT and NICIEC so they can notify work through those schemes, which is cheaper if notifying moderate amounts of work each year.
Those schemes have requirements for being a member, mainly a certain amount of experience (minimum of 2 years is typical) and some qualifications.
The NAPIT ones are here: https://www.napit.org.uk/downloads/forms/napit-guide-to-qualifications-requirements-electrical.pdf , NICEIC will be similar.

All domestic electrical work must comply with Part P (what's in the green box above). However the vast majority of electrical work in England is not notifiable.
Anyone working with electrical systems whether domestic, commercial or industrial must comply with The Electricity at Work Regulations 1989, details of that here: https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/priced/hsr25.pdf

In terms of obtaining qualifications, there are many different qualifications and many providers of training courses.
Those that promise being 'fully qualified' after a certain amount of time, claiming they provide everything and you can then go and work as an electrician after doing their course are selling a lie. The usual result of those is that they cost £1000s, and at the end you have a selection of qualifications that are entirely useless on their own. Without at least 2 years working experience, you won't get very far, and you can't buy experience from any training provider.

For a start part P is a building regulation not a qualification.

Edit, beaten to it by flameport.

To be fair, many official bodies do call things 'Part P this and that'.

It's only been fifteen years - it takes time to get things right.

Beware of those training centres, there are loads offering Gas Safe qualifications and they're just as shady. These are vocational qualifications- there are classroom elements and practical. Some of the practical can be done at the test centre but in both cases you need to build a portfolio of work, the only way to do that is effectively to apprentice yourself to an already qualified person. Friend of mine wasted about 5k on a gas course, sailed through the training centre but couldn't get a placement to build his portfolio.

Flameport thank you very much, very thorough and helps me understand it a lot better.

winston1 said:

For a start part P is a building regulation not a qualification.

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Got that now, thank you sir. The way it's described to a beginner is very confusing.

EFLImpudence said:

To be fair, many official bodies do call things 'Part P this and that'.

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Yep, not very straightforward.

oldbutnotdead said:

Beware of those training centres

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100% alarm bells rang on all these 'quick fixes'

So the question is - what's the correct method for someone in my position who wants to be able to continue with building projects (take on kitchen installs, change of downlights, installing outdoor sockets etc) and gain knowledge as I'm really interested in it all?

flameport said:

However the vast majority of electrical work in England is not notifiable.

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Eg, last week my parents said their bathroom lights kept blowing. I took a look, lifted loft boards up and (ok, I'm no electrician) it looked AWFUL . For a 6yr old install, they certainly weren't ip*4 rated lights, boards were screwed down compressing cables, and one screw at an angle had pierced a t&e (which turns out supplied a shaving point that they noticed was faulty a couple of years ago, called an engineer and he couldn't find issue and suggested a re-wire)
An example of a bathroom fitter who had dropped the ceiling and hashed the wiring. I'll try and work.out how to post a picture. An earth was used as a switch live for extractor (perhaps this is norm?), Connector blocks everywhere, and about 3 jbs interlinking all over the shop. The 'switched earth' wasn't even connected in the fan.
Anyway, my point being I want to be knowledgeable so I can take on these tasks. I did tidy it all up for them and install new downlights, but of course, in the back of my mind, I wanted the peace of mind of being taught all the ins and outs. I know it's not a case of copying wiring diagrams.

Attached a few photos, 2 before, 2 after.

I realise I leave myself open to criticism for attempting work myself, which is why I've started this post to get myself on the correct track to learning.

What's my options for getting the knowledge and experience to start work (interpreting that even though a lot of electrical work is not notifiable, I would still rather train for competence, even though I don't want to be a full time gold card sparky).

Thanks in advance

What you are really asking is how do I become a scheme member, and this varies depending on scheme selected and level within the scheme. Plumbers can become scheme members which allows them to do selected work.

r6deano said:

So the question is - what's the correct method for someone in my position who wants to be able to continue with building projects (take on kitchen installs, change of downlights, installing outdoor sockets etc) and gain knowledge as I'm really interested in it all?

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If you know how to do electrical wiring, i.e. how it works, then you will have to learn the rules - BS7671 The Wiring Regulations; while not law, they are regarded as the right way to do things.

To be able to self notify (stupidly called self-certification - anyone can complete electrical certificates) you will have to apply to a 'Competent persons scheme'.
You will need the BS7671 'qualification' and the other things they stipulate - equipment, certain publications (stupidly including the OSG), insurance etc. Look on their websites.

Eg, last week my parents said their bathroom lights kept blowing. I took a look, lifted loft boards up and (ok, I'm no electrician) it looked AWFUL . For a 6yr old install, they certainly weren't ip*4 rated lights, boards were screwed down compressing cables, and one screw at an angle had pierced a t&e (which turns out supplied a shaving point that they noticed was faulty a couple of years ago, called an engineer and he couldn't find issue and suggested a re-wire)
An example of a bathroom fitter who had dropped the ceiling and hashed the wiring. I'll try and work.out how to post a picture. An earth was used as a switch live for extractor (perhaps this is norm?), Connector blocks everywhere, and about 3 jbs interlinking all over the shop. The 'switched earth' wasn't even connected in the fan.
Anyway, my point being I want to be knowledgeable so I can take on these tasks. I did tidy it all up for them and install new downlights, but of course, in the back of my mind, I wanted the peace of mind of being taught all the ins and outs. I know it's not a case of copying wiring diagrams.

Attached a few photos, 2 before, 2 after.

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Assuming I am correctly thinking which are the after ones then that certainly is an improvement and shows you must understand how it works.
Bare CPCs should not be used as live conductors.

What's my options for getting the knowledge and experience to start work (interpreting that even though a lot of electrical work is not notifiable, I would still rather train for competence, even though I don't want to be a full time gold card sparky).

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If you are not already competent, I do not know.

...

EFLImpudence said:

then you will have to learn the rules - BS7671

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BS 7671 - the regs, correct? So I can do a 'qualification' in this, would that happen to be the Stage 1 (of 5) Domestic electrician course I'm seeing for £2500ish / 18 days?

EFLImpudence said:

Assuming I am correctly thinking which are the after ones then that certainly is an improvement and shows you must understand how it works.

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Why thank you . When I extended and rebuilt 75% of my bungalow (completely gutted and all new joists / roof/ electrics/plumbing/drainage), I took 2 yrs out of work as a project. I was lucky to have some great trade recommendations that allowed me to buddy up with them and be hands on. Including a fantastic spark with whom we completed the entire rewire and cu together. I got a good understanding of switching, rings and radials. Of course just one install isn't enough to prepare me for the world of domestic electrics which is why I want to further my knowledge. IE. I haven't any experience on testing circuits.

ericmark said:

What you are really asking is how do I become a scheme member

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Yesterday I got some great words of advice from an associate of my spark who is recently qualified, the last year or two. So he gave me a bit more of an update into the current stages of spark-life (Blur pun intended)....

"The Part-P course is to give you knowledge of building regulations and provides you with a basic introduction in to constructing electrical circuits,a taster course really, but it does count toward your diploma if you decide to pursue that.

Domestic installer courses are the next step up. They train you in how to install any non-notafiable works. So you can do all the things you said above...add sockets to existing circuits or extend those circuits, modernise existing light circuits, basically manipulate existing circuits that DON’T run through special zones (eg bathrooms, pools, wet areas etc).

I think that the domestic installer course is what you are probably looking for. A step up from “that DIY guy that thinks he knows electrics” haha (I like that). *I had joked that I didn't want to be 'that guy' btw*

However you are restricted as you can not self-certify. So if you ever wanted to add a new circuit to a consumer unit, or change a Consumer Unit, change bathroom electrics, rewire any circuit, etc you would have to get building control involved (£180-£200 each visit).

The other thing about this course is that you may struggle to gain employment with a firm, you will probably be restricted to self employment. The industry unfortunately looks at this course as a step up from the DIY but not an electrician and if you managed to get work with a firm you would most likely be no more than a electrical mate (electrical labourer). Crap pay and hard work but it is work!
Saying that though I have seen people achieve more with less.

The next step would be diploma and NVQ but I’m not sure that’s what you are after.

The domestic installer course sounds more like it suits your situation. Obviously there are the restrictions as I stated above but you have one advantage over most people, you know the trade industry well and you have contacts and that is more than half the battle.

If you want to know anything about the diploma or NVQ I’m happy to share my experience of it with you and can take you to the place I did it to show you what it’s all about if you wanted.

Personally I think what your doing is great. I enjoy electrics and I love the industry. Great trade to be in as it is forever changing and is the one that is going to be always in need.

Any more you want to know just contact me "

Great chap, really helpful.

So my final ask of you all would be (and please correct me if my assumptions are wrong)-

Am I correct in saying if work is non-notifiable, ANYONE with competence (yet no qualification/member of scheme) can legally 'work' on these types of jobs?

How can you find out what work is deemed notifiable?

So domestic installer will train me in said non-notifiable works to help give me the knowledge on these works (but not a compulsory obligation to do these works?

Again, please please please no-one take from these questions that I want any shortcut into the trade, in fact, I'd rather pay for a non-compulsary stage 1 course to fully understand/familiarise with works. I drive myself mad double/triple checking!

I've just started helping on a friends outbuilding (stud wall, insulation, plasterboards etc) and he wants a ring put in for sockets and a lighting circuit. To be taken back to a location for a spark to connect up to a garage CU and his laid SWA. It's these types of works I'd love to be able to do, knowledgeably and legally - IE. I don't want to cherry pick all the hard grafted sparkies work, yet would like the ability to carry my own work out as I'm a little OCD and like to take my time for the best end results.

Phew, there's that long post I warned you all about

r6deano said:

BS 7671 - the regs, correct? So I can do a 'qualification' in this, would that happen to be the Stage 1 (of 5) Domestic electrician course I'm seeing for £2500ish / 18 days?

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Unlikely, BS7671 is a book and the qualification tests knowledge of that book and where to find information within it. It doesn't cover any practical elements.
This is a BS7671 18th edition course: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLg1OV4f2xHzVZMPyo_A8xd7s2jzd8WhP3

Forget about how the expensive courses are structured - it's just how that particular provider has decided to arrange their particular set of training and has no meaning outside of that provider.

r6deano said:

Am I correct in saying if work is non-notifiable, ANYONE with competence (yet no qualification/member of scheme) can legally 'work' on these types of jobs?

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Anyone competent can do any electrical work, there is no restriction on who does it just because it happens to be notifiable.
The only difference is that notifiable work needs to be notified.

What is deemed notifiable is entirely arbitrary, there is no significant skill or competence difference between notifiable and not.

r6deano said:

How can you find out what work is deemed notifiable?

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In England - replacement consumer unit, new circuit, or work within the zones of a bathroom (within 60cm of the edge of the bath and under 2.25m above floor level.

In Wales, the list is more extensive, as it's the list that was used in England before most of it was removed.

flameport said:

Unlikely, BS7671 is a book and the qualification tests knowledge of that book and where to find information within it. It doesn't cover any practical elements.
Anyone competent can do any electrical work, there is no restriction on who does it just because it happens to be notifiable.
The only difference is that notifiable work needs to be notified.

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And notifying means either dealing with building control at significant expense, or joining a self-certification scheme. If you are going to be freqently doing notifiable work then you will practically need to join a self-certification scheme which means you will need to meet said schemes requirements.

flameport said:

Anyone competent can do any electrical work

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Ok so the work I did to tidy up the bathroom lighting for my parents, I was ok to to that?
Because I feel comfortable and competent working on an accessible lighting circuit, and I had confidence that-
* The correct cable was used, length of cable was taken into account (negligble really on 5x 5w), it was clipped correctly, and connections were secure. And I labelled all.
*I worked above 225cm of the finished floor
*I understand the workings of the lighting circuit, radials, cpc's, switched lives
* I used correctly rated bathroom downlights
* My install was neat and tidy

Regards
Dean

Note - it's notvwork in bathrooms, but work within the zones, and at the height you were working that's not the case. So no, you didn't do anything notifiable.

Note - "Special locations" has different definitions in The Wiring Regulations and The Building Regulations.

Such is life; too much to hope they would consult each other.