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Is this bad practice?
- Thread starter xdrive
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I imagine you are thinking of joists. Skenk was talking ('tongue-in-cheek/sarcastically) about notching the underside of floorboards, which would clearly be crazy (but probably is not explicitly prohibited by any building regs!).
Kind Regards, John
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I've also heard notching underside is not allowed.
A strange situation.
Toolstation site states that RCD sockets comply with BS 1363 and BS 7288
https://www.techstreet.com/standards/bs-7288-2016?product_id=1936302#:~:text=BS 7288:2016 applies to,uses (SRCD: socket-outlet
Toolstation site states that RCD sockets comply with BS 1363 and BS 7288
https://www.techstreet.com/standards/bs-7288-2016?product_id=1936302#:~:text=BS 7288:2016 applies to,uses (SRCD: socket-outlet
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Fair enough about the floorboard notching but I still don't see the relevance.
Drill a hole 2" down the joist.
Drill a hole 2" down the joist.
It's nothing directly to do with anything electrical, but notching of the underside of joists for anything (pipes, cables or whatever) is not permitted by the Building Regs because of its effect on the structural integrity (i.e. 'strength') of the joist. Notching of floorboards, which is what skenk mentioned (although, I presume, not 'seriously') doesn't (or, most certainly shouldn't!!) happen.
Kind Regards, John
Sure, we all know that's the proper way. However, what we are discussing is far from unknown, because it requires appreciably less access.
Kind Regards, John
Traditonally floorboards are nailed through the tongue and there is no specific indication of the joist location. Sometimes the position of joists overhead are indicated by cracks or subtle differences in the ceiling, or more easily by tapping or using a joist finder (more so than floors) so I don't agree floor joists are necessarily any easier to find than ceiling joists.Presumably not, at least in terms of my understanding of the words "through", "under" and "over". Don't forget that we are talking about 'the word of the regulations' (with which one is meant to comply), not common sense.
In the situation described by the OP, I'm not sure that much would actually be gained by installing, say, 'safeplates' where the cable crossed under joists. Unlike the situation with floorboards, there is no indication of the location of joists above a plastered ceiling, so it's just as likely (actually, more likely) that someone would drill into a ceiling (and through a cable) between joists as over them - after all, one of the most common reasons for drilling into a ceiling is to locate joists, and the first few attempts almost always 'miss'
Fair enough - I'd forgotten that. We've discussed that before and suspect that it was just an oversight, rather than a deliberate intention to omit them from the list. After all, there would be little point in having BSs for devices which were not permitted under UK Wiring Regs.
Kind Regards, John
To the letter of the regs notching the underside of the floorboard would be permitted with no other mechanical protection, but clearly this is not the intention regarding the regs for cables 'passing through' joists. There's been ample time for a correction to be made to '7671 re RCD spurs but it has not happened yet afaik.
I'm not sure what that site has got to do with Toolstation, and nor am I sure what you mean by it saying that RCD sockets must also comply with BS 1363, since I can't see where it says that (merely that BS 1363, plus umpteen other Standards, is 'cross-referenced' from BS 7288).
Having said that, it would not be surprising that such a socket had to comply with both. Unless much of BS 1363 were repeated in BS 7288, one of these devices would (in it's capacity as "a socket") have to comply with virtually everything in BS 1363 as well as satisfying additional requirements in relation to the RCD functionality.
However, I think skenk's point (which is true) was that BS 7288 does not appear to be mentioned anywhere in BS7671.
Kind Regards, John
I didn't say that.
The RCD sockets listed on Toolstation are said to comply with BS 1363 and BS 7288.
I searched for BS 7288 and that quote is what it says.
The RCD sockets listed on Toolstation are said to comply with BS 1363 and BS 7288.
I searched for BS 7288 and that quote is what it says.
The point is that BS7288 accessories are not recognised as means of fault, or additonal protection in BS7671, and indeed are not mentioned in BS7671 at all. The BS(EN) numbers for RCDs which are permitted are listed.
BS 7288 is not listed in BS 7671.
I think you're somewhat scraping the barrel. What you say of floors is 'traditionally' true of T&G boards, but a high proportion are not T&G and, even when they are, they are not always nailed through the tongues.
I suppose that 'necessarily' gives you a bit of a let out. However, if you looked at 100 randomly selected UK floors and 100 randomly selected UK ceilings, I'm sure that you would be able to (and without any tools) 'find the joists' in far more floors than ceilings!
Quite so. However, we seem to be overlooking the fact that, quite apart from the specific regs we are discussing, there are more general ones which require all cables to be adequately protected from mechanical damage - e.g 522.6.1 and even 132.7(vii).
It hasn't - nor for RCD sockets. I mentioned this in response to the DPC for BS 7671:2018, but they took no notice of me! However, as I essentially asked, can you really believe that the authors of BS 7671 really did intend that devices covered explicitly by other Standards they publish (and which are widely used) should not be allowed in UK installations?
Kind Regards, John
Apologies. When you mentioned the Toolstation site, immediately followed by a screenshot of "Full Description", I made the mistake of thinking that the two were related!
As I said, it makes sense to me that the RCD sockets have to comply with both Standards, otherwise most of BS 1363 would have to be repeated in BS 7288.
Kind Regards, John
I could find the joists in any floor or ceiling without too much bother, but most DIYers may not. Anyway the regs don't make any distinction. It's you who is scraping the bottom of the barrel by suggesting the intent of the regs don't cover cables which pass above or below joists but not 'through' them. Amd1 of the 18th is already published, although I suppose it only covers EV charging so perhaps they are holding back all other corrections/changes for amd2
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