Land Registry plans, ordnance survey and reality

Due to some work re-installing fences where due to an overzealous builder the old fence posts and markings were lost, I consulted the ordnance survey and the land registry plans. I discovered that they both differ with each other, and in turn they both differ with reality, just by eyeballing it, let alone taking specific measurements.

That became a practical problem as I needed to re-instate approx 20 metres of fence and was not sure exactly where it goes. Luckily I found an old metal fence post buried in the ground and I got at least one end of the fence right.

What is the recommended procedure in these cases, when there is disparity between registered plans and reality, especially when we try to decide on distance of buildings from borders, who owns which trees etc?

Rural or Urban?

Can advise once known.

It is urban, post code is KT11

Over Zealous builder? never...

Do you access to your property deeds? hopefully you do as there should be (actually 'Shall') a site plan included, 'helpfully' it will state "not to scale", if you haven't then contact the county records office who ought to be able to help at a cost -you probably have already but didn't realise that. Contact the building society who I expect are holding the deeds pack.

With the site plan you need to do some measuring up and apply that to the 'not to scale' plan. From those dimensions you should be able to determine where the boundaries are. If the boundary under question is a straight line on the site plan then once you have start and finish points lay a chalk line between the two before reinstating the fence. That is more to get the agreement of the builders / new owners than any thing else.

If that fails, refer to the following link

https://www.gov.uk/your-property-boundaries

I have the title deeds plan (1:1250) and the ordnance plan (1:1250) and various "block" (1:500) and "location" (1:1250) plans, all slightly different with respect to each other and to the actual fences/walls/buildings.

The trouble is all those plans, "block plan", "location plan" etc are not consistent and are not accurate to the fixed borders (eg party walls, which we have lots). As a result I am not sure which plan is more authoritative, or whether all plans are badly made to start with, and the physical borders (eg concrete posts and party/retaining walls) are the correct borders. In which case we should attempt to update the land registry and the ordnance survey accordingly.

For example a quite long, straight line boundary with concrete posts fencing (55-60m), is shown on all the plans as a two lines meeting at half length at an angle favouring me. Shall I approach the neighbour and demand we move the fences based on these plans?

In my opinion - the title deeds plan is one that matters provided it's paper (from when the house was built).

If a boundary which is shown as a dog leg on your deeds as was fenced up as such then yes you should be asking for the fence to be reinstated as you expect. O guess the builders took the route of easy (and pretty) layout removed the old, dog legged fence with a nice neat straight one and your loss.
It does sound like all your plans agree with the shape of the boundary even if there is now no points of reference.

I'd not trust the land registry plan, particularly if it's electronic as they just take the route that easiest for them and totally ignore local or owners knowledge - particularly with regard to boundaries.

If you follow the various "boundaries" threads on gardenlaw (where there are some professionals in this field) you will see that the general message is "forget all land registry plans" (which only show general arrangement of plots, similarly ordnance survey). What matters is what is on the ground. If there is an established fence, wall etc that has defined the boundary for years, then that is the boundary, irrespective of what the plans show.

In my own house, both the land registry and ordnance survey show our boundary as a straight line, when in fact photos from the 50's and the present day fence line are decidedly kinked (approx 1m in my favour). When a developer recently refenced the boundary he was initially going to go straight because he'd taken his plans from the ordnance survey, but took little persuading to follow the existing fence line.

Worth reading the stickies on gardenlaw about putting the tape measure away.

Is it a 20m garden fence? Not clear in your posts. If it is, then surely the neighbour knows it's been taken down; so inviting him/her to come out and agree the reinstatement is the simple answer? I can't believe you can't eyeball it to within 12", and posts are going to be 4"! Line of stakes in the ground, and "This look ok to you?" Sorted.

Agree about Gardenlaw

charliegolf said:

I can't believe you can't eyeball it to within 12", and posts are going to be 4"! Line of stakes in the ground, and "This look ok to you?" Sorted.

Click to expand...

As in many things in life there is much more complication than can be detailed without boring people to skip over. As mentioned earlier I luckily discovered an old/original metal fence post which I used for the one end of the fence. The other end of the fence used to end up at a structure which I recently extended. That structure was inline with and formed part of a very long boundary line (60m) with 2 or 3 dog legs, depending on which plans we are looking at. The ordnance survey map shows 3 kinks and this structure NOT to be inline with the boundary, which means I own a (significant to me) piece of land behind it (and therefore I can for example open a much needed air vent). The land registry plan (admittedly lower res) shows it bang on and inline and only 2 kinks. In reality there was only 1 kink in this 60m boundary line (by eyeballing it). To make matters worse, the builder hired a large digger, and completely obliterated through a low brick flowerbed and all fencing without marking it first. By the time I realised what was happening there just large heaps of earth and rubble and no evidence of any fence. I reinstated the fences as best as I could but I believe I have donated a small, but significant to me, strip of land, if the ordnance map is to be believed. When I approached the neighbour showing an A3 printout of this ordnance map he completely dismissed it as "not official".

The land registry plan cannot be used to determine a boundary. The OS is what it says it is - a survey of what was on the ground with no indication of plot or ownership. Have a look at google maps satellite - you might be able to see the fence.

Ah, the neighbour element! What about Google Earth? I'm taking an interest cos my Sis is having trouble at her house, though the fence is intact. But Google earth has a history thingy on it, where you can go back in time and see changes. Worth a look.

Edit Quick-finger Rusty beat me to it!